Home Forums Friends of FOC help w/ building tuffhead foc arrow

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    • drycreekarchery
        Post count: 6

        I would like help with shaft & fletching selection for a 225 Tuffhead w/ 75 gr. adapters. I shoot a Mike Treadway longbow. 54″-51# @28 — 47# with my 26″ draw. The setup will be for NC whitetails. (If there are any trad brothers near Stokes county NC, I would like to hear from you.) I have read Tony Breeding’s tuning article on the Tuffhead site along w/all the other great info.

        I have G/T 3555 trad fletched & cut to 29 1/4″ & 7595 hunters cut to about the same length. I have looked at the AD Hammerheads w/ built in footing & wondered if those would be recommended. Do any of you use the external footings kits? What spine should I use. I don’t think I should have much trouble with shaft splintering with deer, & I don’t shoot too many stumps. But, I could be wrong since I’m going to the heavier head. I currently use 160 gr Simmons sharks.

        I would also like some input on adapters. I like the threaded adapters for ease of switching b/h & f/p from shafts, but you have another part that could lead to failure. I assume the heavier the adapter, the further it goes into the b/h?

        Thanks for your help, Drycreekarcher

      • Troy Breeding
          Post count: 994

          I’ll say it again, never try to start out with a precut to length shaft.

          I just went thru all this with Ron at KME. It’s easier to tune the shaft to the bow by cutting small cuts off the shaft than it is to try and tune the bow to a precut length shaft.

          Now to the tuning. It’s just a guess (because everyone shoots different), but the 7595 may be alittle bit stiff. The 7595 is a 340 deflection.

          The reason I say that is your draw length and point weight.

          If you have any of the 7595 shafts in full length start with one and see. If at full length the shaft shows stiff then drop to a 5575 and work your way shorter and shorter until the flight becomes clean.

          Now, don’t be fooled by how the shaft sticks in the target. Sometimes stiff shafts will kick off the sight window and give the appearance of a weak shaft. One way to tell this is to rub red lipstick on the back half of the sight window side of the shaft. If you see lipstick on the sight window strike plate after shooting it tells the truth on what is really happening.

          The external footing are used to support the shaft behind the insert. With extra weight up front the inserts are easily pushed into the shaft when something hard to hit, plus it helps prevent breaking of the shaft behind the insert.

          Steel adapters are highly reccommended. Alumium adpt. are one of the leak links in any setup.

          Troy

        • Ed Ashby
          Member
            Post count: 817

            Troy Breeding wrote: I’ll say it again, never try to start out with a precut to length shaft.

            I just went thru all this with Ron at KME. It’s easier to tune the shaft to the bow by cutting small cuts off the shaft than it is to try and tune the bow to a precut length shaft.

            Now to the tuning. It’s just a guess (because everyone shoots different), but the 7595 may be alittle bit stiff. The 7595 is a 340 deflection.

            The reason I say that is your draw length and point weight.

            If you have any of the 7595 shafts in full length start with one and see. If at full length the shaft shows stiff then drop to a 5575 and work your way shorter and shorter until the flight becomes clean.

            Now, don’t be fooled by how the shaft sticks in the target. Sometimes stiff shafts will kick off the sight window and give the appearance of a weak shaft. One way to tell this is to rub red lipstick on the back half of the sight window side of the shaft. If you see lipstick on the sight window strike plate after shooting it tells the truth on what is really happening.

            The external footing are used to support the shaft behind the insert. With extra weight up front the inserts are easily pushed into the shaft when something hard to hit, plus it helps prevent breaking of the shaft behind the insert.

            Steel adapters are highly reccommended. Alumium adpt. are one of the leak links in any setup.

            Troy

            I totally agree. Troy is spot on.

            Ed

          • jpcarlson
            Member
              Post count: 218

              Listen to these wise ol’sages, they know what they are talking about and Troy walked me through the process. It produces an amazing arrow superior to all other set ups IMHO:) Any arrow setup which goes through my foam target has something special going on. Wait until you harvest game with it!

              J

            • drycreekarchery
                Post count: 6

                Thanks for the response.

                I don’t have any full length shafts to test. Gov’t funding is not an option, so I must narrow my choice to one shaft.

                Would any of these be a good choice, or are there others that will be better? I just want a good dependable shaft for 47# with 300+ grain tuffies on the tip.

                G/T Trad 3555 500

                G/T Trad 5575 400

                G/T Heavy Hunter 500

                G/T Heavy Hunter 400

                MFX Classics 500

                MFX Classics 400

                Thanks for your help!

              • Troy Breeding
                  Post count: 994

                  I feel pretty sure you can rule out any of the 500’s. After that I’d pick the lightest grain per inch 400 you have. With 300 up front you don’t want more grains per inch in the shaft than you can help. The testing I’ve done has shown that any finished arrow that has 16 grains per inch or more have passed the point of deminishing return.

                  Troy

                • Ed Ashby
                  Member
                    Post count: 817

                    Troy Breeding wrote: I feel pretty sure you can rule out any of the 500’s. After that I’d pick the lightest grain per inch 400 you have. With 300 up front you don’t want more grains per inch in the shaft than you can help. The testing I’ve done has shown that any finished arrow that has 16 grains per inch or more have passed the point of deminishing return.

                    Troy

                    I think Troy meant to say any finished arrow with a total weight that is 16 or more grains per pound of the bow’s draw weight.

                    Ed

                  • Troy Breeding
                      Post count: 994

                      Good catch Ed. Guess my fingers weren’t able to keep up with the ol’ hair covered computer.:D

                      Troy

                    • Vintage Archer
                      Member
                        Post count: 276

                        [quote=Troy Breeding]Good catch Ed. Guess my fingers weren’t able to keep up with the ol’ hair covered computer.:D

                        Troy[/quote

                        Troy I didn’t think that old computer had any hair that’s why it is always covered with a hat……Hat/hair what is the difference.The main thing it is protected with a cover:D

                      • Ed Ashby
                        Member
                          Post count: 817

                          As a sideline to Troy’s comment on the point of diminishing returns with total arrow weight to bow draw-weight, I tested this a lot, crosschecking with three chronographs, and with the modern high-performance trad bows it seems to be right at 15 to 16 grains of arrow eight per pound of the bow’s draw-force (depending on the bow). What, to me, was one of the most interesting finding from this testing was that with self-bows the point of diminishing returns was right at 10 grains per pound of the bow’s draw weight. I believe that this is where the old “rule-of thumb” of using 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow draw-weight originated from; it was the most efficient point with the ‘old bows’. Unfortunately many folk still consider this the ‘optimum’ arrow weight for peak bow performance. That was once the case, when most shot self-bows, but it no longer holds true.

                          However it’s important to note that the arrow still continues to gain KE and Momentum after passing this ‘optimum weight’, it’s just that the RATE OF GAIN diminishes drastically once this ‘optimum weight’ is passed.

                          Ed

                        • Troy Breeding
                            Post count: 994

                            That’s exactly what I found with my testing. Momentum never stops gaining, but at a certain point the gain isn’t really worth the increase. This is easily seen on a graph.

                            Troy

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