Topic: Review of 2" Rayzr Feathers…

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- lyagooshka
  November 26, 2012 at 1:57 am
  
  Post count: 600
  #3480
  
  Well, in another post, I asked about these fletchings. I wound up getting some Gateway 2″ Rayzr Feather and taking Dave P’s suggestion and going to 4 fletchings. Here is what I found (not scientific, just what I noticed while shooting):
  
  First, the bows I was using. 1) my Java Man American LB, 66″, 52#; 2) my Crow Creek Black Feather Hybrid, 62″, 50#.
  
  Next, the arrows. I used Easton GameGetters XX75, 500 spine cut to 29.5″ with a 100 gr. insert. I used the ones I made first (3 5.5″ banana fletchings) and the ones I just made.
  
  I started shooting at 45 yards. I was not aiming at a target, just making sure I hit the background. I wanted to see how the arrows flew. To be honest, I did not notice much difference between the 4-fletch 2″ and the 3-fletch 5.5″.
  
  Next, I went over to the 20 yard target. I shot one of each arrow from each bow. Yes, I need to practice more, but the arrows were pretty consistant.
  
  From the top, they all look to be pointing in the same general direction as well.
  
  I then moved to the 10 yard target. Again, pretty consistant (I consistantly miss).
  
  And from the top, also close, though I think a bit more off than at 20 yards.
  
  I also shot another similar arrow (an Easton Camo Hunter in 2016 spine. It’s pretty much the exact same arrow as the GameGetter in a camo pattern. The main difference is that there were no weighted inserts, just the ones that came with the shafts). I shot one arrow from each bow at 10 yards to see if they were parrallel in the target.
  
  Lastly, just so you have an idea of actual size comparison, here they are side by side with a tape measure.
  
  So what did I find out? Well, not much. The biggest issue I had with the bananas was that the ones that did not have the weighted inserts made a “FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT” sound in flight, especially out of the Black Feather. I guess the extra weight slows the arrow just enough that I don’t notice. Not much out of the American, so I would say speed is the culprit. Beyond that, I think the 2″ fletch arrows don’t recover as fast at really close distances. That is based on the fact that the 5.5″ arrows were pointing slightly different in the 10 yard target than the 2″ arrows. Beyond that, I did not notice much. The 2″ fletchings remind me a bit of my compound days. They look pretty good, and they are silent. I would have liked to post some more pictures, but I was in a bit of a rush.
  
  Anyway, I am sure there are others out there who could put the fletchings to an even better test. I wish I had a chronometer to judge speed, maybe a video camera that could film in high enough quality to show the arrow in flight. But I don’t.
  
  The one thing about trying this was that you can only order these fletches in groups of 50 or 100. So here’s my idea. If anyone is interested in trying these flethings, PM me and I will send you 3 or 4 (based on what you plan to make). I can spare about 20-30. I have 42 left (I made 2 arrows). I don’t think I will use them in the near future, but I do want to keep a few on hand for repairs, or to make something just for fun. If anyone is interested, FCFS (first-come-first-served). Anyway, I hope this was informative and not too boring. Be well.
  
  Alex
  
  😀
- EJK
  Member
  November 27, 2012 at 8:59 pm
  
  Post count: 18
  #22370
  
  I had some 3″ Trueflight feathers and made up an arrow with a 4 fletch. It seemed to fly the same as my other arrows with 3- 4″, and 3- 5″ feathers. Don’t know if I’ll buy anymore, but I can at least use up the supply I have. 😀
- Dan Jackowiak
  November 28, 2012 at 6:04 am
  
  Post count: 106
  #22855
  
  Alex, I’d like to take you up on the offer if these are right wing feathers, so I sent you a pm with my address.
  
  Thanks,
  
  Dan
- james gilmer
  Member
  November 28, 2012 at 1:32 pm
  
  Post count: 131
  #23256
  
  these little feathers are all i shoot now. The only draw back in IMO is that if you dont shoot the brightest colors you lose the arrow in flight on shots longer than 15 yards. At least I do anyway.
- tombow
  November 28, 2012 at 5:55 pm
  
  Post count: 103
  #23460
  
  Seems to me if you’re losing them in flight, they must be flying pretty straight. I’ve been working up some heavy FOC Woods and fletched most with 3″ shields that I cut out of some 4″ parabolics. I recently fletched a couple with 5″ para’s and I can’t see a difference. If the spine of the shaft is right then the feathers don’t have to “work” to keep the arrow straight. I have to say it’s tough to get away from the look of those nice big feathers, the little short ones just look a little strange. But, gain, I don’t see that much difference when the arrow is already flying well without feathers.
  
  Interesting stuff to ponder, that’s fo sho.
  
  TOmBow
- Stephen Graf
  Moderator
  November 29, 2012 at 10:33 am
  
  Post count: 2429
  #24249
  
  My experience with small feathers led me to similar conclusions. They work fine if nothing goes wrong. But let the arrow touch a twig, or have a bad release, or don’t follow through, and watch what happens.
  
  Big feathers, no problems. I only shoot at game out to about 18 yards anyway. And there are always twigs in the way. But with EFOC arrows and big fletching they get through without incident.
- Dan Jackowiak
  December 1, 2012 at 11:35 pm
  
  Post count: 106
  #26987
  
  Tombow wrote: Seems to me if you’re losing them in flight, they must be flying pretty straight. I’ve been working up some heavy FOC Woods and fletched most with 3″ shields that I cut out of some 4″ parabolics. I recently fletched a couple with 5″ para’s and I can’t see a difference. If the spine of the shaft is right then the feathers don’t have to “work” to keep the arrow straight. I have to say it’s tough to get away from the look of those nice big feathers, the little short ones just look a little strange. But, gain, I don’t see that much difference when the arrow is already flying well without feathers.
  
  Interesting stuff to ponder, that’s fo sho.
  
  TOmBow
  
  Tombow, those 3″ shields you are making, is the cutter you are using from 3Rivers? I’ve been considering buying that thing but I wonder what the overall height of the feather is when done? I really need about 1/2″ of height because I use one feather on the end of my nose to confirm my anchor point.
  
  Alex, thanks man! The Razyrs got here today. Out of the 7 you sent tho I noticed that 3 seem to not be as tall as the other 4, which has me concerned about quality control issues. It seems to me that all the feathers should be the same height, this batch appears to be off about an 1/8″.
  
  I took 3 of the higher feathers and re-fletched a shaft and tried it out. I can see no detectable difference in flight compared to 4″ shields. The one arrow piles in with the other 3 at 22 yards with no problems at all. I then tried an Abowyer Wapiti and it flies just as well. Other than the height issue I like em.
- lyagooshka
  December 2, 2012 at 9:09 pm
  
  Post count: 600
  #27995
  
  2blade,
  
  I noticed the same thing, though a bit late. I saw one of the feathers on an arrow I made appeared to stick out further than the others. Took me a while to figure it out. That’s yet another reason I sent more than needed. Glad you got them. I really saw no appreciable difference. Might use the rest of them up one day. For now, the 5″ bananas are going to be the way I go. Thanks for the input. Be well.
  
  Alex
  
  😀
- lyagooshka
  December 18, 2012 at 7:51 pm
  
  Post count: 600
  #46806
  
  Just as another FYI…
  
  I made another set of [2] arrows. I fletched these with 3 feathers. I made sure they were all the same height. I used the same GameGetter shafts as above, but these with the 100gr insert and 250gr Tusker Concord screw-in. I got the idea from listening to the good Dr’s presentation on YouTube. They were talking shorties, with enough FOC. I figured these would do the trick, so I took the 24% FOC arrows and tried them out.
  
  One thing I noticed is the arrows hit a touch lower at 10 yards (expected). Otherwise, the arrow comes off with what appears to be a slight fish-tail to the left (I shoot right-Handed), but instantly corrects and stops fish-tailing. I did not use any special equipment, but the arrow seems perpendicular to the bow when it’s in the target at 10, 15 and 20 yards. So, all-in-all I am impressed. I think I will get more Rayzr Feathers and make some more arrows. I will get some 250gr field points and see if it’s a constant. Hope this helps. Be well.
  
  Alex
  
  😀
- kellydockter
  December 18, 2012 at 11:44 pm
  
  Post count: 67
  #47013
  
  great stuff, thanks for the info. it’s fun to test. alot of people find one thing and thats all they know. i like to test and change and test, i find it fun.
- Dan Jackowiak
  December 19, 2012 at 12:29 am
  
  Post count: 106
  #47059
  
  Alex, try less head weight. I have found that a left tail kick is an indication of a weak shaft. I have some arrows hear with 28% foc, I think I’ll fletch one up with 3 razyrs and see how that works. They worked great on my 22% foc arrows but then these shafts fly straight bare so it is what I kind of expected.
- lyagooshka
  December 19, 2012 at 1:05 am
  
  Post count: 600
  #47096
  
  2Blade:
  
  I will definitely try that. These arrows are 2016 [500] as I was trying to match them to my 50# bow. I actually made this arrow to try, but it is for a 75#-80# bow I hope to get in a few months. I will have the same set up on a 2315 [340]. Thanks for the advice. Maybe I’ll get the hevier shafts now and try them on my 50#? Seems reasonable to me. Now if only the wife could see the importancee of my experimentation… 😆 Be well.
  
  Alex
  
  😀
- Dan Jackowiak
  December 19, 2012 at 5:07 am
  
  Post count: 106
  #47303
  
  Alex, whats your draw length? and whats the shelf cut on that bow? +1/8″ or so?
- lyagooshka
  December 19, 2012 at 2:13 pm
  
  Post count: 600
  #47746
  
  I draw 28″. My arrows are cut to 29.5″ from back of point (raw shaft, not the insert) to the throat of the nock. My hybrid is center cut (though I have not tried the heavier heads with it yet) and my LB is 1/8″ (I believe, it’s a Java Man American). I have not gotten the heavier points yet, or the heavier shafts. I would get them closer to the time when my new American is ready. Like I said, it will be 75#-80#. I figure this way: I still can, so I will. Also, I have a really light bow (recurve) and when I first started out, it was a bit tough. Now that I have been shooting a 50#-52# bow, I pick that thing up and am pretty good with it. Ergo, if I do all I can at 80#, going back to 50# or 52# will be cake. I’m sure I am mistaken, but like I said, while I still can… Be well.
  
  Alex
  
  😀
- Dan Jackowiak
  December 19, 2012 at 5:34 pm
  
  Post count: 106
  #47887
  
  Alex, the 2016’s should shoot pretty good with stock inserts and 150gr heads. With the hybrid you’d have to go down to 125 gr heads. With the 2315 a 100gr insert and 200gr head should be somewhat close. Good luck!
  
  Dan
- lyagooshka
  December 20, 2012 at 5:37 pm
  
  Post count: 600
  #48927
  
  Dan,
  
  Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. As the time gets closer to getting my new bow (hoping April-May timeframe) I will start to work on the arrows. I’m still going to play with what I have now, just to see how fine-tuned I can get them. But as far as the FOC stuff goes, I must {humbly} say that I can see a noticeable difference at the range, which I am sure translates to the field as well. Thanks for all the advice. Be well.
  
  Alex
  
  😀
- james gilmer
  Member
  January 3, 2013 at 3:44 pm
  
  Post count: 131
  #7876
  
  two inchers in a three fletch out of the widow at 20 yards
- james gilmer
  Member
  January 3, 2013 at 3:47 pm
  
  Post count: 131
  #7879
  
  home made 2.25 inchers in a 4 fletch out of the bobcat
- Raymond Coffman
  Moderator
  January 3, 2013 at 4:00 pm
  
  Post count: 1235
  #7893
  
  jgilmer
  
  It is Obvious you have figured out how to practice in minn winters – “out of the window” ” out of the Bobcat” – haha
  
  nice group! I wish I could do the same—what bow ?
  
  Scout
- james gilmer
  Member
  January 3, 2013 at 5:26 pm
  
  Post count: 131
  #7973
  
  the second one is a hill country bobcat. It is a new design he released last year. Fun stick
- Raymond Coffman
  Moderator
  January 3, 2013 at 6:11 pm
  
  Post count: 1235
  #8015
  
  Beautiful Bows! I will have to check hill country out–
  
  scout
- Dan Jackowiak
  January 22, 2013 at 11:11 pm
  
  Post count: 106
  #29401
  
  Well, this thread got me experimenting with fletching, 2″, 3″ and my old standby 4″, all shield cuts. I see no difference in flight characteristics at all, with broadheads or fieldpoints.
  
  But I do have one question. Are the flight characteristics going to be different in the wind? It would make sense to me that because of the smaller surface area of the short feather they should be affected less than a larger feather… but who knows? Anyone have any experience with this?
- Bruce Smithhammer
  January 23, 2013 at 2:01 am
  
  Post count: 2514
  #29531
  
  This just thread just reminded me to give an “Amen!” For open-mindedness, experimentation, and freedom of speech!! 😀
- lyagooshka
  January 23, 2013 at 3:26 pm
  
  Post count: 600
  #30203
  
  2Blade,
  
  As is painfully obvious, I have little to no experience, but I remember reading a quote that might somewhat answer your question. It basically said that, “at traditional bowhunting distances, if the wind will affect your arrow flight, it’s probably too windy to be hunting”. Be well.
  
  Alex
  
  😀
- Bruce Smithhammer
  January 23, 2013 at 4:05 pm
  
  Post count: 2514
  #30244
  
  2blade wrote:
  
  But I do have one question. Are the flight characteristics going to be different in the wind? It would make sense to me that because of the smaller surface area of the short feather they should be affected less than a larger feather… but who knows? Anyone have any experience with this?
  
  More weight up front helps stabilize arrows too….
- tombow
  January 23, 2013 at 8:01 pm
  
  Post count: 103
  #30454
  
  2blade,
  
  re: your question from way back in december.
  
  The cutter I am using is made by Fiskars, the scissors people. My wife bought it at a craft store. It has a small plastic handle which holds a cutting wheel at the end and is probably intended for cutting paper. I use it for cutting out vinyl wraps from a larger sheet of adh.backed vinyl and for cutting feathers. The high point of the feather is about 5/8″ when cutting 3″ out of 4″ or 5″ feathers. Personally, I am starting to lean back toward full lengths feathers, but as I said, if the spine of the shaft is correct, I think you can use just about any feather you want. I have been told that parabolics tend to make less noise in flight than shield cuts, which was tested “blind” by having one person shoot while another person was standing behind a building next to the arrows path and just listening to see if they could hear a difference. But I am too busy focusing on where the arrow is going to shift my focus to arrow noise. Again, interesting stuff to think and talk about, though.
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