Sorry to hear that Steve. I was sick all night, listening to it rain! I know your pain and it’s not something I EVER want to go through again.

IT CAN HAPPEN, to the best of shots, the best hunters. Deer can move at INCREDIBLE speed and even at short distances cause the arrow to connect in totally unwanted areas….and sometimes in areas you cannot explain. Please read on!

Good news though. The deer died on the run 75 yards past where I last saw it. I am SO thankful, bad shot and all, that the deer didnt lay suffering all night like I thought. There was no evidence in the beans that the deer did any more than drop over.

Elsewhere in this site I posted where guys find deer that the arrow hit was NOT where they thought.

I am now living proof of how much they can move! I’m still a little confused HOW this shot angle could have happened!

At 15 yards broadside, or very close to it, the arrow entired cutting the third rib from the back, HIGH up on the side then angled down through the VERY back of one lung and through the liver, exiting the very BOTTOM of the other side. There is a good 8 inches in height difference between the two! I was NOT in a treestand so YISH!

I’d have SWORE I saw yellow fletching low and too far back, unless I somehow saw it EXIT from underneath on the other side. I’m a bit lost on it all but there will be NO MORE SHOTS at spooked deer for me!

Testing a few arrow weights, and heads out of my 43lb 1968 Bear Super Kodiak. I might add that this bow is EXTREMELY quiet. The quietest bow I’ve ever shot.

This was a 575 grain arrow. A GT 400 shaft with a 160 grain Grizzly head and 125 grain steel adapter with 3, LOW cut 3.5 inch RW feathers. Total pass through, only one rib hit and was laying about 8 yards past where the deer was hit.

How it hit high then angle slightly BACK on a deer walking at a slight angle away from me…….I have no explanation except the deer had to have dropped and spun at the shot.

The deer went 150-160 yards. The furthest I’ve ever had to track one. KNOCK ON WOOD!

All checked in, and packed in ice. I’m gearing up to go back out tonight!

Good luck all! Do a better job than I did!

God Bless
Steve Sr.

Thanks, David. I really do hope and pray that my story WAS the “worst case” I have….as well as any of you but your point is well put. They do happen and the preparation being ready FOR such is simply good common sense. We NEVER plan bad hits but last I checked, none of us humans have reached perfection status.:D

While the above scene played out better than I thought and less than I shot for, I have to agree with you wholeheartedly.

While “iffy” shots happen, thankfully not very often, a good sharp completely penetrating set up helps immensely. My true, dyed in wool (literally) hunting bud who helped me track was impressed with the penetration qualities of my set up and how quick the deer did indeed go down. Keep in mind a rapidly whirling animal REDUCES penetration.

My Buddy also shoots low 40 lb bows and gets the job done but I can see the wheels turning in his head. He has watched me with my set up all summer and has worries about the trajectory but betting he switches by next year to the Ashby recommended set up, or st least something close. We have trailed several of his kills over the years where penetration was……:shock: “OH CRAP”!

You see, I am NOT done yet, and plan to show him several more hopefully better done. Smaller ones like this current kill is not my “norm” yet this season and current economy issues has elected me as “provider of meat” for three households (sons + family) with a total of 8 carnivors at the table. I can only be so picky and get the job done. Yes, you CAN SAY, “I have my work cut out for me”!

I look at it as a way to be more in touch with our ancestors. 😀 Hunting is not just a joyous pastime or “sport”, it is a means by which success is mandatory to eat.

That arrow was my “light” arrow yet had a 22 percent FOC and I have my 660gr Abowyer brown bear and wapiti heads on Grizzlystiks that are 26 percent. I have no doubts what these will do.

I couldnt stand it and have to try one other head too.

A Pearson Deadhead set up on a 23 percent EFOC Grizzlystik in the 600 gr range. I just gotta see how much the weight and EFOC help this wide head in low poundage. Shots will be picked carefully (I HOPE, LOL).

My current ground set up has high probabilities of “quartering to” shots. Probably not one I’d like with the Deadhead just yet but any of my other arrows will be good to go here.

Probably should have posted this in Doc’s info folder but the end result of season will be, all in one post.

On slow horrible deaths, we do our best to not allow this to happen but one point always comes to mind that I’d like to add to your examples.

Road kills. Each and every one of us has seen poor animals suffering along the road, smashed, broken, horrified.

I can think of no manner of death as painful, as slow or as horrible. Without hunting taking the population of game animals down ……..the number of those suffering on the roads would grow ten fold!

My promise to all of you, and of course, our quarry. I will always do my best to make the end for any animal I hunt:
1. Quick
2. As painless as possible
3. Useful (and appreciated)
4. and last but not least, remembered always.

Taking a few days off from hunting here during full moon and getting “house work” done. Preparing for winter and of course grinding some venison later on. 😀

Of course if the wind is right and a front is coming in…….well hey.

You have to have your PRIORITIES in ORDER~!

Thank you one and all for allowing me to VENT and then SIGH with relief during this ordeal~!

Steve Sr.

Thanks, Snuffy.

I’m pretty familiar with Doc’s study. I read it or refer back to it about every other week looking for something.

I’m aware that the MA of the Deadhead is NOT the recommend one, yet in my defense we are, as a group, willingly providing information on our OWN studies IMHO and a quizzical mind has me wondering HOW MUCH, individually, EFOC, Arrow weight, single bevel, contribute on whitetail size animals from my “lower end” bow weight.

Within ANY study, there is results of what “worked” and ALSO what “didn’t work quite as well”. Doc has that within his study, in Spades, yet I personally have a well founded belief from viewing (and deboning) over 3000 whitetail shot with various weapons, weights, heads that PERHAPS there will be a slightly “lesser” set up that will successfully surpass the same thresholds within whitetail anatomy.

In no way, do I fear being “wrong” yet do fear acceptance without my own testing. Color me with any brush you wish but no information will be “useless” within the study, even if a total failure.

Do keep in mind that Doc himself was impressed with the Deadhead and said “it took everything we could throw at it”.

Should ALL of us totally subscribe to Doc’s total package recommendations for all hunting we will then be comparing set up to set up penetration within a very small range of specs. In fairness, even though Doc has done WAY more than I could ever do in finding the best set up for penetration, I know people.

CHANGE? EEEEYYYYAHHHHHH!! Mention ANY change at your place of work 😯 and see the IMMEDIATE reactions!

The TOTAL package of 650 grain plus arrow weight, AND EFOC, AND single bevel high MA heads is a quite a RADICAL change for a LOT of people hunting medium sized game.

I can’t even guess the number I’ve times I’ve heard (and you too, I’d bet):
“I’ve used X broaheads, Y Arrows and Z Grains per pound for 40 years and don’t see a reason to change now”, or something on the same order.

There is and will be those wishing to keep part of their current set up yet improve upon it if they can without a major change yet IN TIME may continue to go the direction of the entire package Dr. Ashby’s results has recommended.

I must admit, not doubting Doc at all and meaning no offense, that I have a healthy curiousity of how much EACH effects penetration through their own merit…….AND on whitetail since I and a gazillion others hunt them.

Rest assured I have my full “DOC APPROVED” arrow set ups in the quiver and ready to go yet feel EFOC and/or arrow weight, and/or the heads themselves are an improvement and can only compare MYSELF by using variations of such on whitetail.

While breaking through the “bone threshold” is indeed a part of the equation and indeed GREAT to have “if needed” I have to wonder about if the exact same set up is needed for whitetail versus big ol buff etc from accross the pond.

Time will tell. Please don’t take my own testing as any type of “arguement”. It is just an ol fart testing things on his own using Doc’s results as a guideline to follow somewhat.

It is NOT that I have any doubts about the end results of Doc’s testing to date, not at all. I do feel however that SOME of the specifics of the total package Doc recommends can ALSO be heralded as improvements to “standard” setups on their own merit.

Example: Some wont shoot that heavy (for any reason, due to the more pronounced trajectory) of an arrow yet STILL can benefit from increased FOC and / or a high MA head of single bevel manufacture. Individually testing these myself just adds to my own understanding of the physics of penetration as well as allows me to pass on the same to others.

I’d be discouraged if ONE particular aspect of the Ashby result’s recommended arrow is reason enough for some to not improve upon their current setup by utiilizing the others.

There will be no surprise when a few years from now you find me shooting something very, very close to Doc’s suggestions.

God Bless
Steve Sr.

P.S. “Matrix move” Todd, you’re killing me here! ROFL! Thanks buddy!