When things look down and you think your state is doing something bad, just look to some other southern state to make you feel better…

In North Carolina, there is a bill in the legislature to make it legal for dog hunters to trespass on posted property without permission.

Steve Graf wrote: In North Carolina, there is a bill in the legislature to make it legal for dog hunters to trespass on posted property without permission.

😯 What the?!! That is just plain bizarre!

Here, in Michigan, baiting was banned just a few years ago.

Well, I just wrote a long “Petersen screed” on this topic, but thought better of it. I’d rather hear you guys work it out than for me set the tone of the discussion with my own extreme disrespect for any form of baiting.

Let’s keep the ‘hunt’ in hunting. dp

Heck, if we can’t bait ’em we’ll just have to make the fenced antler factory enclosure smaller. 🙄 Or put windows on both sides of the roofed and bench seated shooting blind. We could be out here all day waiting to shoot a buck. 🙁

Just got back from the local range and as the only traditional shooter I’m always a thing of curiosity. They were talking about their bait sites for their spring bear hunts. The goal it seems it to create a location of ready food that animals learn where it is and keep coming back so all they have to do is sit an wait for the animal to come and they then kill it. I think the only thing that offends me more is the use of dogs to torture an animal before its killed while its curled up, scared, and peeing itself. This type of thinking is partly why I’ve moved to the traditional hunting, the respect for the hunt has not been lost.

Erik

I long for the day when I can simply set up my remote camera, focus it on a bucket of donuts in a clearing in the woods, monitor it all from the comfort of my laptop in my living room until I’m certain that there will be a bear gorging on it, and then I can walk up and pop it while it’s not looking, wipe the cherry filling from its mouth and snap a few brag pics. Gawd, I love the sporting life…[/sarcasm]

“The way to preserve the flag’s special role is not to punish those who feel differently about these matters. It is to persuade them that they are wrong. … We can imagine no more appropriate response to burning a flag than waving one’s own, no better way to counter a flag burner’s message than by saluting the flag that burns” Justice Brennan writing for the majority opinion in Texas v. Johnson 1989.

The above statement is one that I’ve found to be a profound guidance to me since I read it. We can not be silent but at the same time it is what we “do” that makes us the more honorable position, and adds weight to our arguments. We may disagree with those that bait, but it is our “obligation to persuade them that they are wrong.”

Erik

just because others partake, does not mean you have to. Dont worry about what BillyBob hunts with, how he hunts or what he chooses to shoot. Do your own thing.

as for the hounds…you wont get support from me, I grew up a coonhunter, rabbit hunter. just because its not your cup o tea, dont judge others for marching to a different drummer.

trapperDave wrote: just because others partake, does not mean you have to. Dont worry about what BillyBob hunts with, how he hunts or what he chooses to shoot. Do your own thing.

Normally, Dave, I’d agree. But what worries me is how the general public perceives this sort of ‘hunting’ (and I’m using the term very generously). And I’m not talking about the PETA-heads, who we’re never going to win over anyway, I’m just talking about regular people who see this sort of thing and find it offensive – folks who might otherwise, if presented with a view of respectful, ethical hunting, be won over to our understanding. It doesn’t take many videos of deer walking up to a feeder and being blown away to sway a great deal of public sentiment away from hunting in general.

I think that the hunting community can continue to honor a diversity of perspectives/approaches without giving in to something like baiting. Something which I’m the first to admit that I am judgmental about. I think it’s lame.

I have hunted raccoons, and I hunt rabbits, cougars, and bears, so I’m not arguing from an inexperienced base. I agree with the use of dogs for bird hunting, especially in the retrieval of fallen animals. The use of dogs to “corner” an animal and hold it there to be killed at the convenience of the hunter is not an ethical hunt, as is baiting. I support the use of rifles to spears in hunting, as long as it is done in an ethical way. In this case the use of bait and/or dogs is not ethical to me. The use of dogs is cruel and baiting is a sloppy easy path designed to make taking an animal easier with as little effort as possible. This would be an ethical act for me if the hunter/family depended on the meat for food, but it is because the hunter(s) are lazy not hungry. Being silent or ignoring what others do, which we find as unethical is not the path to resolving a problem. Smith has a great point, if we cannot resolve this issue between hunters. Non-hunters will not make the decision for us and it will not be the PETA members, it will be those that are neutral and the visuals of baiting and dog hunting will persuade them against all hunting. I do not seek your support but I do ask that you discuss this issue.

Erik

Funny thing is that bowhunting is also a questionable method of take to many non-hunters. I have discussed this with a non-hunting friend of mine who believes hunting with a rifle is OK, but argues archery hunting is barbaric. Careful what you wish for.

I have never hunted over placed bait or with the help of Dogs. But I am also not willing to dimiss these methods outright, without experiencing them in ethically acceptable (for me) situations first.
For example I would not feel comfortable hunting Deer on an estate, over a corn feeder, in a treestand on a fields edge. But I would be comfortable hunting Bear in a ground blind, deep in the woods, over oats I had purchased and hauled in myself. Also I would not be comfortable hunting Pigs that are held at bay and mauled by Dogs while I shoot from 10 yards or less. But I would be ok with taking a shot at a Cougar treed by Dogs after having to climb and trudge through miles of snowed in mountain and forest.
Long story short I consider an ethical hunt to be any hunt in which I must invest a considerable amount of effort. No pain no gain, right?

Lots of good points by everyone!
I really do sometimes feel that as bowhunters, and maybe moreso as traditional bowhunters,that we tend to put ourselves on a bit of a “pedestal”. When we do this we align ourselves dangerously close with the anti-hunting public!
Hunting for the most part is a non-spectator sport, and we as individuals are the ones that have to set the rules that determines which methods we use. We are the ones that have to live with these decisions as well!
Bruce

Exactly how I feel Wildschein and Bruc. I do not know the whole story but perhaps the Game and Fish is trying to thin the herd as quickly and efficiently as possible. Hunting is a tool of wildlife management. From my own experience I am far more succesful with a rifle than my recurve, although I enjoy the bowhunt much better.

Well I live in GA and am not in favor of baiting, but looking at it from the WRD stand point, hunting is a management tool here and I mean all hunting not just bowhunting. There are a lot of deer in GA and also a lot of population growth and loss of habitat and when it comes to the value of land andits use frequently wildlife are at the end of the line.
We have long hunting seasons here in GA, in my county about 4.5 months of deer season with a limit of 12 deer, 2 antlered and 10 antlerless. That is a lot and for the past three years I have taken close to my limit since we don’t like buying drugged up raised beef but that is another rant. In my county there are an average of 55-60 deer per square mile, they are not starving and there are some huge bucks but that is a staggering number per square mile and the state of GA wants to reduce the number due to crop depredation and danger to people and automobiles from collisions. The bottom line is that the hunters are not getting the job done to WRD’s satisfaction. So like it or not they see baiting as a way to make it easier for hunters/killers to reduce deer numbers and numbers is all they are looking at. So as much as I hate it we now have baiting and instead of a hunting season we will have a killing season, the killing of habituated formerly wild life.

Hmmm. From a “deer control” point of view, it would seem that with close to one deer for every 10 acres (640 acres to a square mile) a feller could just sit on his front porch or park the truck most anywhere in the countryside with a rifle and not have to wait long before he could start working on his 12 deer a year and no bait needed. It’s a shame when wildlife management comes in conflict with hunting ethics and reduces all the great challenges and joys of pure true hunting to just “getting the mandated kill out.” Of course we can continue to hunt under whatever personal rules we choose. We don’t have to bait just because it’s legal. But it just ain’t the same when everyone else is baiting and buzzing around on ATVs and using trail cams and other super hi-tech gear and whatever else they can to make the killing even easier. In cultures like that, so many of us at times find ourselves in the situation where we can’t find anyone else to hunt with who shares our values and respect for the animals we hunt and for ourselves. That makes it a special joy when we do find such a one, and a website like this and most the folks who post here are a big help in that direction. Hang in. Homer

Patrick wrote: [quote=Steve Graf]In North Carolina, there is a bill in the legislature to make it legal for dog hunters to trespass on posted property without permission.

😯 What the?!! That is just plain bizarre!

Here, in Michigan, baiting was banned just a few years ago.

And now they are trying to allow it again!!

ddostal — good to see you posting here, even if it’s on a bad-news topic. Come on in and hang around! dave p

David Petersen wrote: Well, I just wrote a long “Petersen screed” on this topic, but thought better of it. I’d rather hear you guys work it out than for me set the tone of the discussion with my own extreme disrespect for any form of baiting.

Let’s keep the ‘hunt’ in hunting. dp

Hey Dave, how about this bit of interesting trivia…Michigan banned baiting of deer because of a positive CWD test in a fenced deer population. I know that those two topics are on your list of favorites! I would love to hear your thoughts on this interesting piece of Karma!

Drew