Interesting. Personally, my #57 recurve is the heaviest I shoot, and I’ve seen no reason to go heavier than that.

On a related note, Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear (bow shop in Colorado & online) recently had a post on their blog regarding their stats with the bows they sell. Among other things that it points out, if you scroll down, is that there is a pretty sharp drop-off in sales of bows above #55. And according to the owner, the vast majority of their bows are sold to hunters, not target shooters.

Personally, I attribute this to more people (re)discovering the virtues of EFOC arrows, rather than compensating with heavy bows…:wink:

I noticed that too. Did you also see that there was not one Hill style longbow in the arena? I thought that that was kind of strange too. Seems to me that a Hill style bow fits neatly between modern recurve and R/D long bows and the self bows that were there.

Trends come, go, and then come back again. What those bowyers told you is in line with what Tim Cosgrove of Kustom King told me a few years ago. He said there was a time when he could barely sell a 45# bow because folks wanted heavier weight. By the time I talked to him, he had long ago stopped stocking bows of 60# or over because now so few people seemed interested in buying them. Going back even further, bows pulling 40-50 pounds were normal for whitetail hunters. I’m sure at some point down the road, heavy draw weight will be the norm again.

While others have pointed to possible reasons by the buyer I will swing the other way and say certain bowyers in developing there new bows have developed bows that are smoother to draw and more efficient at the lower wights. i.e. I own a Byron Ferguson made longbow that draws to 70lbs at my weight which I struggle with. However I recently tested from the bowyer hitman longbows one of his take downs which was 55 for me and it drew smoother and just by opinion sent the same arrow deeper into to the target consistently.

tkohlhorst wrote: I was down at the Waterloo Expo last weekend and was shocked at what the vendors were telling me about the bow pounds that they sell. I only saw a handful of bows that were above 50lbs at 28″. I think the heaviest bow I saw was 55lbs at 28″ and that was a selfbow. My dad and I asked a few vendors why they do not have any heavy bows 60+lbs and they all said that the bow would sit there for 2 years before someone would pick it up. They said they would be more than happy to make one up but do not have them on display due to the lack of interest in them. I would say close to 90% of the bows at the expo were bewteen 40-50lbs which is enough to kill any animal in the midwest minus a moose. What is the reason for this? Is it due to the fact that people want to shoot all day long and pulling back a 60lbs bow all day long can wear out your shoulder pretty fast? Or could it be that the younger generations are not getting into traditional shooting?

When I was building bows for the public back in the earlie 2000’s I was seeing that trend coming and coming fast. If I built a bow over 55# it took sometimes several months to move it. It hadn’t reached the low weight range it is now because 40 to 45#er were just as hard to sell. Anything I had in the 47#-55# range very rairly came home with me after the shoots.

This is the reason I still build my own bows. If I want more weight I just build it.

Troy

skifrk wrote: While others have pointed to possible reasons by the buyer I will swing the other way and say certain bowyers in developing there new bows have developed bows that are smoother to draw and more efficient at the lower wights. i.e.

I would agree with that too. There are so many very efficient designs to choose from now (and other related improvements), that I believe that for most applications, there really aren’t significant gains to me made above #60, which can’t be made up in other ways (string choice, arrow weight, etc) that still allow one to use an easier drawing bow that will still get just about anything done. Why pull more weight than you have to?

tkohlhorst wrote: ….would you take a 45-50# bow to go moose hunting or caribu hunting?

No, but I wouldn’t feel the need to take a #60+ bow, either. I think that something in the mid-to-upper #50s, with a proper, hard-hitting arrow/broadhead setup, will work for anything in N. America (and not just in the idealistic realm of perfect shot placement).

I was there as well and was quite pleased. It used to be the other way around. and BTW I killed my moose with a 47 lb recurve

[img[http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4122/4903974415_27ebe9027e.jpg” width=[/img]

47 lb fox breed

I think that some of it may have to do with people not taking the time to build up to the heavy weights.

You can pick up a 40# and start shooting well with it long before you can a 60+, and like it or not most people are still lazy and want to shoot instinctive within a week of starting with a bow. This is why the compound is so popular too.

I have and do start as many as I can into trad, but I push them toward cheap low weight bows to start out with. It lends itself to better form, more accuracy, and confidence. Get the form right to start with then they can shoot about anything.

I wish someone had tought me that when I started.

Swamp Rat wrote: I think that some of it may have to do with people not taking the time to build up to the heavy weights.

I have and do start as many as I can into trad, but I push them toward cheap low weight bows to start out with. It lends itself to better form, more accuracy, and confidence. Get the form right to start with then they can shoot about anything.

I wish someone had tought me that when I started.

i think its smart to start with a very managable weight–40’s or so–but i also think that once you have achieved an “automatic” form –you should work up in weight –as high as you can–allowing you to shoot as heavy an arrow as you can at a reasonable speed—high #50’s-low 60’s is fine for north america IMO-

-but i can’t help but think that many guys are trying to see how low they can go–we’ve all seen the posts–“elk killed with #30 bow”–i don’t think its the right direction for bowhunting to go–i’m not saying you have to hurt yourself !but putting some effort in this will have its rewards

—————————-mike

I agree, and I am having to take it to another level with my family and I moving to Australia. I am going to have opportunity to hunt water buff, and I have read plenty on guys that have taken them with 70# bows. I know my mate over there shot one with a .375 H&H mag. and it just walked off. Go ahead and bring your little 30# if you want but….

While I don’t intend to shoot 70# all of the time, I do have to work at it to be able to maintain my shoulder strength. 70# to me isn’t shot for fun it is a means to and end.

well that explains it my baby bows are 60# I really prefer 70#+ long bow and 65# or so in recurves that kind of makes the bows shoot very similarly. im recovering from another injury and hitting the weights in preperation. I plan on being in shape to shoot 70# very well in a month or so. theres just something about shooting a bow with some power behind it they shoot flatter or so it seems and hit nice and hard. but then im old and set in my ways shooting heavier bows gives me the motivatrion to get into better shape despite having dislocated one arm many years ago and having a shoulder seperation on the other side. im left handed but had to learn to shoot right handed due to the dislocation of my right arm the recoil will take my arm out of the socket. I do prefer the Hill style riser too although i have a new Kota on order and his old school riser works really well for me also.

well that explains it my baby bows are 60# I really prefer 70#+ long bow and 65# or so in recurves that kind of makes the bows shoot very similarly. im recovering from another injury and hitting the weights in preperation. I plan on being in shape to shoot 70# very well in amonth or so. theres just somethign about shooting a bow with some power behind it they shoot flatter or so it seems and hit nice and hard. but then im old and set in my ways shooting heavier bows gives me the motivatrion to get into better shape despite having dislocated one amr many years ago and having a shoulder seperation on te other side. im left ahnde dbut had to learn to shoot right handed due to the dislocation of my right arm the recoil will take my arm out of the socket. I do prefer the Hill style riser too although i have a new Kota on order and his old school riser works really well for me also.

I think its interesting how that everyone wants a 45-50 lb bow weather its a recurve or long bow, for hunting or for just shooting. I shoot what I call the Quick stick its a reflex deflex long bow 64″ 60 lbs and also a 72lbs reflex deflex. built by myself. I fill more at ease with a more lb pull on my bow and a heaver arrow when hunting. I have shot lots of diffrent bows and if you havnt shot lots and you go to start out traditional you better start with a lighter bow and work up.

It’s my impression more people are taking the time to tune their bows than before. An arrow w more weight FOC that hits straight from a tuned lighter bow will penetrate deeper than an arrow that hits at an angle from a heavier untuned bow. Why work harder than you have to to do the same/more work?

IIRC, Bear’s most popular bow in the 60/70s was the Grizzly, and the most popular weight was 45 pounds. Shot a 1963 Kodiak, 1968 Grizzly and Tigercat, 1973 Take Down through the chrono and got 175 – 180 fps at 9 gpp, feathers and fingers.

Virtually identical to newer Bear Super Kodiak and Take Down, Martin Dream Catcher and Savannah, Three Rivers Tomahawk, Caribow Snowbird, and Matlock Predator X3 (all w Dacron strings). In my hands anyway.

Before I injured my hands my go to bow was 55#. I shot around 650 grains of arrow and was able to group well out to 20 yards. After my injury I had to drop down in wieght and went to a 43# bow with arrows at about 525 to 550 grains. My groups improved a bit at 20, but improved substantionally(sp) at 30 and even 40 yards.

Why? I think it was because it was easier to shoot. I wasn’t overbowed with 55#, but 43# was a cake walk compared. Just that much easier to focus on the target.

As far as hunting with that weight, that 43# bow smashed through a Mulie’s shoulder blade at 30 yards. Don’t doubt that it would kill a Moose under the right circumstances (10 yards or less, broadside, leg forward etc.).

There are plenty of us shooting heavier bows. Heavier bows always have the edge as long as you practice w/them and are as proficient as needed for the game you hunt. More power, flatter cast, better penetration w/heavier arrows, all the advantages are yours. There’s no way a 650grn arrow from a 50lb bow will out penetrate the same arrow from a 65+ lb bow.

Remember Fred Bears 3 commandments: “Pick a spot, know when to shoot, and shoot the heaviest bow you can handle”.

Words for a bowhunter to live by.

BTW, I shoot 65 and 73lb bows w/ 2317’s tipped w/ 175 gn tigersharks.

Have you ever seen the pics from King Would Be? He hunts jurassic hogs!You can be he ain’t shooting 45lbs!

That more poundage = more force is undeniable. But with a bow in the mid #50’s and a 650 gr. 24% FOC arrow, I don’t feel like I’m lacking sufficient force for the species I tend to hunt. And if anything, I’d increase my arrow weight and FOC prior to increasing my poundage, if better penetration for less than ideal shot placement was my concern.

The other part of the equation for me is balancing poundage against how long I can comfortably hold the bow at full draw. Sure, I can draw a #70, but personally, I can’t hold that bow for more than a second or two without starting to wobble, which, in my opinion, narrows my shot opportunity in the very few seconds when I need it most. I like a bow I can comfortable hold at draw for up to 10 seconds.

Not putting down heavier bows, or anyone else’s choices, by any means. These are all obviously very personal decisions. Just explaining my own rationale for shooting the poundage that I do, and the other factors that I weigh against sheer poundage.

tkohlhorst wrote: I shot anything from light then shafts with 100grain field points all the way up to heavier shafts with 190 grain field point and those things would not fly correctly.

What type of bow? How is the shelf cut?

My first reaction is that 100gr. points out of a 60 lb. is probably way too light, and at 190 you’re probably just starting to enter the right range for point, but of course that’s also going to depend on a lot of other factors like length/spine of shaft, etc.

I suggest four reasons for an overall shift to lighter bows among trad shooters:

1. Aging of shooters

2. Injury among shooters

3. Better materials and tech available to bowyers, so that lighter bows today are faster than heavier bows yesterday (in many cases)

4. The increasing awareness among shooters that heavier arrows and FOC shot from lighter bows generally provide better penetration than lighter arrows from heavier bows.

In sum, some of us can no longer handle heavier bows, being old and beat-up, while others of us have figured out we don’t need a lot of bow weight to get the job done well, and prefer the ease and comfort of a bow we can easily handle. IMHO

TK if you are young and strong , like I once was then the heavier bow is likely the better choice . Firstly you’re release will be pretty much automatic with the heavier bow.if you can hold it at full draw and aim for a few seconds than it is the one.

I have a 48 # recurve and a 58# recurve. I shoot the heavier one better as long as I’m not hurting from the ” Over 60 syndrome “ that seems to hit about every second day! that is when I shoot the lighter bow:wink:

Bruce

I shoot a straight end Martin ML-14, 70#@28″. My draw length is 29″ so I may be pulling back just a bit more. I shoot that bow the most because I fell in love with the bow and I took time to develop those muscles that are needed to pull it back and hold it. At 52 years old I am still comfortable shooting it for about 2 hours or a little more without much muscle fatigue. I don’t know what the future holds for me and my bow but for now I am content with shooting it and its accuracy. I went to one of the Kalamazoo expos and pulled back a Northern Mist 90# bow and to my surprise I pulled it right back to anchor. I was shaking a bit but I was pleasantly surprised that I could even pull it back. If I were a lot younger I would probable buy one of those gems. Howard Hill said that most people do not want to take the time to develop the strength to pull a heavier bow back and hold it. Perhaps that may be true I don’t know. I guess for me I get a lot of enjoyment from it so I will continue shooting my Martin until I can’t do it anymore.

Dan

One way to develop those muscles is to try some of the exercises G. Fred Asbell has in his book “Advanced instinctive shooting for bowhunting” or develop a workout program to strengthen the muscles that are used in the back for heavier bows along with their opposite so the ones in the chest, remembering to work all muscles in the back not the ones on the draw side.

I use several exercises to build up and shoot well and i have no lower shoulder socket on my right arm I had to lear to shoot right handed then firty year slater i seprated my left shoulder 4th degree sepaeration it shortened my draw by one inch from 29 to 28″. I bench press do curls and whats called a fly. the fly builds up the shoulder blade area which really helps in drawing heavy bows and holding them at full draw. Im 60 and have had spinal damage due to being in car accident hit from behind while stopped several times the socket and shoulder injuries were from crashing motorcycles. it hurts a bit building up but once you get into it it feels great!

But im s sucker for big motors big guns and high poundage bows ex wife says i too macho! im only 5’7″ not a big guy

but no matter wehat you shoot aboove all have fun thats the name of the game.

skifrk wrote: One way to develop those muscles is to try some of the exercises G. Fred Asbell has in his book “Advanced instinctive shooting for bowhunting” or develop a workout program to strengthen the muscles that are used in the back for heavier bows along with their opposite so the ones in the chest, remembering to work all muscles in the back not the ones on the draw side.

Sounds like you’ve been through the mill codger and still shooting heavy bows! As we say over here – fair play to ya! 😀

I’m 52, and my neck has been broken 3 times now, I have to shoot 70+ to keep the docs and meds at bay, at every shoot I go to I look for the heavy stuff, and usually it just isn’t there, that’s one of the reasons I started building my own bows, I shoot an 80+ ILF elk risered recurve, an 82# ILF warfed metal risered bow with limbs that weight just 580 grains each and a 74# custom 1pc. longbow Bodork(Mike Baker) made for me a couple years back, and of course my 70# #1…..I hear talk about how the advances in materials and technology that have made the lighter bows equal to the heavy stuff of old……Well, just imagine if those same materials and technology were applied to heavier bows…..it works pretty darn well….but I just build the heavy stuff for myself.

Nice detailing on the last riser Voodoo 8)

Wexbow wrote: Nice detailing on the last riser Voodoo 8)

Thanks, That one I call #1 because it’s the first Elk risered bow I built…been my test dummy for over 6 years now….

Its a bit of work to stay in shape to pull a decent bow but we need to stay in decent shape! compared to Howard Hill and people like john Shculz im a wuss those guys drew some serious bows into their old age. Id like to carry on that kind of tradition and besides its kind of fun seeing the look on someones face when they try to draw your bow! its all about working those muscle groups and staying in decent shape i am constantly working to get back in shape because im an accident prone individual. But its not tolerable to me to compromise! ill shoot a mans bow as long as i can then maybe ill get a compund! i sometimes shoot my kiddie bows i have several 60#ers i use when recovering from injury.my nephew started shooting some time ago i gave him my old first recurve then my brotheers old recurve and three weeks ago i gave him a vinson minor bamboo longbow and dozen wooden arrows! you should have seen his face now all his friends want longbows. hes drawing 60# but hes a tall 16 year old. he has pretty much put his compund away and shoots the long bow exclusivly! I cant wait to take him to some traditional three d shoots like i did his uncle when he was young.

Now why couldn’t I have had an uncle like you codger! Keep the tradition alive my friend 8)

Troy Breeding wrote:

When I was building bows for the public back in the earlie 2000’s I was seeing that trend coming and coming fast. If I built a bow over 55# it took sometimes several months to move it. It hadn’t reached the low weight range it is now because 40 to 45#er were just as hard to sell. Anything I had in the 47#-55# range very rairly came home with me after the shoots.

This is the reason I still build my own bows. If I want more weight I just build it.

Troy

Troy,

It also probably has to do with much of the trad hunters getting older and if in doing so they accumulate injuries or develop arthritis, they do it for the lack of pain. At least that is why I have gone to lesser draw weights.

Bill

Well what ever poundage we shoot were doing it without all the dohickies and BS thats the main appeal to me. I like the simple act of thinking of where i want the arrow to go and when it does its just a great feeling especially when you shoot a nice group at a good distance. I havent hunted much in years not alot to hunt out here but i really enjoy 3d shoots and at the longer distances the higher poundage really helps and then it takes alot of conditioning which is good for me too. If it wasnt for Archery I could never get motivated to hit the weights. shooting my bows is my reward to motivate me to stay in better shape. that just might keep this old carcass breathing and above ground a bit longer.

Im just getting into trad archery for two reasons.

#1- I cant stand the way that tv “hunters” have coerced the public into thinking that if they dont have THIS YEARS newest and most expensive bow…they wont kill a deer.

Matthews,Martin..heck just about all bow manufacturers have driven the price so high,Id darn near have to take out a looan to buy a new compound. They jack the prices skyhigh,due to the popularity of these shows,then move production to China or wherever to lower THIER cost,all the while raping the consumer.

#2- I bought into the “need for speed” concept that is so prevailent in compounds,and then I tried out a recurve at Gander Mountain….it was like seeing Heaven!! The angels sand and the sunlight filled the range!! Here I was…holding a bow that with a quiver full of arrows and sight…was like holding a feather at the end of my arm!! Shooting that ‘slow’ bow,I realised that with speed comes constant tuning to maintain accuracy.

That 50# recurve I tested was far slower than my compound..about 140fps slower…but shot after shot,it was right on the money!!

I figured my longest shot where I hunt is about 30yds..that means my ‘slow’ recurve is gonna take a tad over half a second to reach my target. If a deer is going to hear my shot,react,and escape within that fraction of a second…it was just meant to be.

Ill keep shooting my slow as molasses recurve…and reap greater accuracy from it. Its now a part of me.

Something about the simplistic design,light weight,accuracy and deeper connection to my quarry as I HAVE to set up closer…just makes it a better experiance for me…and thats what its all about.

I tired of the TV sports a while back. It just wasn’t that interesting. When you’re standing in a tree in snow at 20 degrees, it just isn’t something that can be had on a video.

As far as compounds go, to each his own. It’s not different than anything else we’ve been sold or tried to be sold. Looking at the price of one of those things makes a nice custom traditional bow look like even more of a value. enjoy, dwc

I am going moose hunting with a 49# longbow,will be slinging 700 grain arrows with a 2 blade Delta up front