Topic: How Much Straightness Is Needed For Wood Shafts?

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- Jimmie Newton
  Member
  January 22, 2018 at 8:13 pm
  
  Post count: 15
  #130135
  
  I’ve loved reading the threads here about making wooden arrows, and looking at the pictures of those arrows folks have made. They just seem to have so much more “personality”, or a higher “That is SO COOL!” factor than the aluminum arrows I’ve made and shot with my bows. I have been curious about something, though……
  
  What do y’all consider an “acceptable level of straightness” for a wood arrow? By that I mean how much runout/bend/crookedness of a shaft will still make a good arrow that will shoot at least better than most of us humans can hold & shoot?
  
  I ran a lathe for a living for 30 yrs.. I dealt with some very precise needs for straightness in different types of shafting. Maybe this makes me a bit on the anal side of wanting straight shafts; I dunno….. I have a roller bearing jig setup for spinning my Port Orford cedar shafts, along with one of my plunger indicators that reads in .001″ increments. ALL of the 1 doz. shafts I got have more than .010″ of indicator movement; some quite a bit more (.050″+). I’ve actually broken 2 of the raw shafts trying to straighten them (Oooppss!!!) But I wondered as I checked these on the roller just how crooked can they be, and still shoot to an acceptable level of accuracy? Any experiences or opinions with this?
  
  If it matters, my personal “benchmark” of good hunting level accuracy would be, say, consistent 4″ groups shot somewhere around 15-20 yards. Now, I know others probably have higher or different standards than that, and that’s fine. I don’t wanna debate that. I just wonder if its possible for a notably crooked shaft to still shoot what I define as “well”?
  
  I’ll also ‘fess up that with MY shooting, I’m not at the skill level to hit my benchmark yet, with a barebow. I’m working to correct that, however. My instinctive shooting isn’t yet quite “Instinctive”, hee hee…. That said, I would still value the experiences & opinions y’all would have on this….
- Stephen Graf
  Moderator
  January 23, 2018 at 4:32 am
  
  Post count: 2429
  #130137
  When I make an arrow, I :
  
  put a dab of hot glue on the small end of the taper;
  
  heat the point up and put it over the taper;
  
  spin in around to distribute the glue and make sure it comes out all around the edge;
  
  wipe the excess glue off;
  
  spin the arrow on the bench top;
  
  If the arrow wobbles, I turn the point and try again until it doesn’t wobble;
  
  dunk the arrow in water to cool it off;
  
  repeat the spin test.
  
  That’s how I do it whether I’m adding field points or broadheads. Works plenty well for me. I should mention that I try to get the arrows as straight as possible before mounting the points, and that if one has wobble afterwards, I try and straighten it again.
  
  I use the beer bottle compression method to straighten arrows.
- Jimmie Newton
  Member
  Member
  January 23, 2018 at 12:14 pm
  
  Post count: 15
  #130140
  
  Thanks, Stephen!!!
  
  I think pictures of your finished arrows were some that I admired, and more or less how I built my first 1 dozen batch of cedar slivers years ago. Basically, I stained them, put a minimal crest on them (spun ’em by hand…… man, did that turn out “not so well”…….), sealed ’em, fletched ’em, and shot ’em.
  
  The very first thing I’ve done on my last 2 batches is to straighten them, as best as I’m able to. I’ll usually check them & straighten them again a day or so later, before I do the knock tapers. And do the same afterwards, before I stain, crest, seal them, & such .
  
  But I’ve gotta think that while it would be nice to have my dial indicator read a steady “0” as I spin a wood shaft under it, it probably ain’t gonna happen with woodies. I dunno; maybe I should just stick to aluminums…..
- Stephen Graf
  Moderator
  January 24, 2018 at 4:27 pm
  
  Post count: 2429
  #130162
  
  In my experience, I’ve had as many “perfect” spinning wood arrows fly wonky as I’ve had “crooked sticks” fly perfectly. In fact as i think about it, it seems that the chance that an arrow will fly well is about even between straight and not-straight arrows.
  
  I don’t mean really crooked arrows. I mean arrows that wobble a bit when I spin them. If I can see the bend by looking down the shaft, I get it out. If I can make the arrow look straight and spin pretty well, then chances are the arrow will be better behaved on the range than I will.
  
  I wouldn’t let imperfect wood arrows keep you from having fun. Give them a try, and don’t fret overly much about how they spin. Shoot them. If they behave, add ’em to the quiver.
  - Charles Ek
    Moderator
    
    February 6, 2018 at 5:41 pm
    
    Post count: 566
    #130410
    
    “If I can see the bend by looking down the shaft, I get it out.”
    
    This. The rest of the straightening is something you do when EVERYTHING else in your setup has been taken care of and there’s too much snow to go shoot some stumps.
- Jimmie Newton
  Member
  Member
  January 25, 2018 at 4:10 pm
  
  Post count: 15
  #130171
  
  I think that’s some good advice there, Stephen! I believe I’ll try that. Thinkin’ about maybe trying some Surewood Fir shafts, also. Maybe it was just a fluke kinda thing, but the last batch of Port Orford cedar I just got a couple of weeks ago really wasn’t as good as I’ve seen in the past. Been hearing that’s becoming more “the norm”? The POC I got from 3Rivers few months back was good quality……..
  
  Along this “straightening an arrow” subject, has anyone used an Ace Roller Straightener? I made a similar tool out of a pulley from my local hardware store, but found a couple of things I don’t like about my attempt. I did have better luck with that style of tool than any other I’ve used.
  
  Came across this “series” of videos by this guy about straightening wooden arrows that’s been helpful.
  
  I have a home-made roller setup like he uses, and did pick up a pointer or two that helps. I’ve been doing the “swap ends on the rollers” method he uses, but have been “over using” my home-made pulley style tool. I don’t like to succumb to gimmicks, but I really do wanna shoot woodies, and if a tool works good, might pull the trigger on it……
  
  The more I think on it, the more I believe I should be able to build at least few wooden arrows that will in all likelyhood shoot better than I’m capable of doing. Think I’ll quit worrying about it…..
  
  Jimmie
  - Charles Ek
    Moderator
    
    February 6, 2018 at 5:44 pm
    
    Post count: 566
    #130411
    
    After the Surewood shafts arrive, you’ll have more time for shooting, since you won’t be spending any time straightening. Not an exaggeration, and the thing that cured me a few years ago of buying anybody else’s shafts.
- Stephen Graf
  Moderator
  January 25, 2018 at 5:23 pm
  
  Post count: 2429
  #130172
  I have an ace roller. It’s a great tool. I started with a home made gizmo like you described, but bit the bullet on the ace tool. That said, after straightening 1000’s of arrows with the ace, and then finding myself in camp with nothing but a beer bottle I found in the ditch, I discovered the beer bottle worked about as well. In order of ease of use and results, I found:
  
  Ace roller
  
  Beer Bottle
  
  home made roller
  
  I think the reason the beer bottle works so well is based on Dean Torge’s Principle of Complements. He preached using a flat tool to make a curved surface and a curved tool to make a flat surface. Any amount of experience gained shaping a bow or arrow will prove to you that he was right.
  
  With the Ace tool, you can lay the arrow down on your bench and run the tool over it. It works and the arrow looks good, but it’s a bit of a blind and dumb process. With a beer bottle you can run it on the arrow at different angles and really compress the wood where you want to. It only takes a few arrow shafts to begin to learn the subtleties of arrow straightening with a beer bottle.
  
  I always insist on using “fresh” beer bottles. I find that if I straighten just 1 or 2 arrows with a bottle, and then move on to another fresh bottle, I end up with a big smile on my face no matter what’s going on with the arrows 🙂
- Ralph
  Moderator
  January 27, 2018 at 8:11 am
  
  Post count: 2580
  #130189
  
  I use a “Shaft Tamer”, I think it’s called. I’ve had it so long I don’t remember for sure. Shhhh Steve>>>>>>>>>>>>
  
  Works really well.
  
  I’ve used a round bladed screwdriver and even the needle nose on my Leatherman before in a pinch.
  
  Beer bottle works still? Been nearly 29 years since I handled a new one.
- Jimmie Newton
  Member
  Member
  March 1, 2018 at 2:56 pm
  
  Post count: 15
  #130851
  
  Well, I guess you guys can say “I told you so!!”, hee hee……
  
  The snow is gone, we had blue skies here in western OR for a few moments, the outside temperature warmed up to the 40s, so I went & shot my new cedar arrows.
  
  They shot every bit the equal of my aluminums I’ve been flogging for awhile. These things pretty much all have a slight amount of runout/wobble when I spin them on my arrow spinner gizzie I made for checking runout. But it definitely isn’t enough to effect my pathetic shooting at all. And again, they grouped right next to my old beat up alums!
  
  I fletched up some 90 deg. 4″/4-fletch arrows,, along with some 3-fletched arrows. They all seem to impact at the same general area of the target, and the 4-fletchers don’t seem any noisier than the 3-fletched arrows. Maybe all the noise I was hearing from my (beat up) 4-fletch alums. was from the tired, beat up feathers?
  
  Anyway, thanks for the reassurance y’all gave me above here. I’m really happy withthese arrows. Now to see what Surewood firs do with broadheads do next………
  
  Here’s my Jim Brackenbury Drifter, my arrows, and my attempt at a Lakota/Plains Indian-style quiver.
- Raymond Coffman
  Moderator
  March 2, 2018 at 8:48 am
  
  Post count: 1235
  #130879
  
  Jimmie Newton
  
  Pretty arrows! I’am glad your wooden arrow quest was successful, those brackenbury bows are Beautiful .
  
  Very nice leather work, i have always liked the plains indian style quiver. Need to build myself one. I was wondering wether that style quiver would work a little better for hunting, than a back quiver- especially in brushy areas. It would also seem to require less noticible ( more masked) movement to draw an arrow from – your thoughts having used one ?
  
  Scout
- Jimmie Newton
  Member
  Member
  March 2, 2018 at 5:58 pm
  
  Post count: 15
  #130912
  
  Thanks, Scout!!!
  
  I think that *for myself*, the plains style quiver works best (there are no perfect quivers……).
  
  I tend to stillhunt kinda brushy areas, and I’ve had the best luck getting around in that type of habitat with the Plains Indian-style quiver. I can carry it on either side, and with the strap shortened up a bit, have used it as a back quiver as well. Plus, I do have some Indian in my bloodline, so I kinda sorta feel a bit “connected” to my heritage when carrying arrows this way. Although one of my huntin’ buddies who advocates bow quivers has told me “Yeah, well, good luck with your “Indian connection”. Ya can’t eat a “connection”…….. You need to shoot somethin’ if ya wanna eat somethin’.”. Sigh….. I gotta start hangin’ with different huntin’ buds…….
  
  I like the looks and traditional aspects of a Hill-style back quiver, I have a tough time with the arm bump thing necessary for using one of those. I do still plan on trying to make a Hill-style back quiver, and practicing with it.
  
  Here’s a group I shot tonight at 20 big-boy steps (somewhere around 18-20 yds.?) with my *inexpensive* OMP Ozark Hunter longbow, which I really like shootin’…… I was actually aiming for the very middle blue dot, though…… Once the operator gets it together, this could be huntable, I think. I’m happy with the arrows performance……
  
  Jimmie
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