List your FOC arrow information for wood,carbon & aluminum/REFERENCE 4 SELECTING NEW ARROWS 2014-06-29T19:10:36+00:00

Home Forums Friends of FOC List your FOC arrow information for wood,carbon & aluminum/REFERENCE 4 SELECTING NEW ARROWS

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  • Vintage Archer
    Member
    Post count: 275
    #7191 |

    As most know it is hard to get started building a FOC arrow. One would be extremely lucky if they could convert a existing set up of low FOC into a high FOC arrow with out experimenting with different spine shafts.

    I get a lot of calls from people wanting to experiment with a new set up .It would be handy to recommend a place for them to start. If they had a list of different set ups they could find something close to their bow and bow weight for a starting place.

    I would appreciate a glimpse at your equipment.it is a list we could all benefit by and would become part of “Friends of FOC”

    What is needed is:

    Bow type and Make ( example long bow, black widow)

    Bow Length

    Bow weight@ 28″

    Your draw length

    Arrow type ( material,brand,spine)Example carbon ,250 carbon express

    Arrow length (throat of nock to tip of shaft)

    Feathers number and length

    Insert weight if applicable

    Adaptor weight if applicable

    Point weight

    Footing weight if applicable

    Total arrow weight

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included) http://www.tuffhead.com/education/formulas_FOC.html

    * add any helpful comments about tuning , hints and trade secrets.:D:

    Hope I did not leave any thing out…..Try copying and pasting list to fill out your post..I think that will work at least we can start that way

    I copied and pasted the list and bolded my answers ….it is a start

    Thanks for your participation

  • Vintage Archer
    Member
    Post count: 275

    Bow type and Make ( example long bow, black widow)+ cari-bow , dryad orion, Chuck Jones all 3 piece long bows

    Bow Length= 64″

    Bow weight@ 28″= 55lb

    Your draw length+ 28″

    Arrow type ( material,brand,spine)Example carbon ,250 carbon express= carbon express 250

    Arrow length (throat of nock to tip of shaft)=291/4

    Feathers number and length = 3 right wing straight fletch 3″

    Insert weight if applicable=100 Grain

    Adaptor weight if applicable= 75 grn

    Point weight=300 grn

    Footing weight if applicable=25 grn

    Total arrow weight=752 grn

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included)=32%

  • Doc Nock
    Member
    Post count: 1150

    I guess I’m going to get voted “WET BLANKET award!

    While I admire the purpose of said listings, for others guidance, what I’ve found in more years than I want to count, messing with EFOC and getting Doc’s tutelage, is that the BIGGEST variable is the BOW IN HAND!

    I’ve had numberous bows all in the same 47-50# range…LB, Short and Long LB, RC, etc.

    In each case, every single bow wanted an entirely different spine arrow to affect the same front weight set up (I’m not a rich man so I use what I had on hand and liked).

    After having gotten my Bigfoot Sasquatch, the lightest of my bows, I had to jump from .400 spine to .340, for instance, just to harness the extra energy that bowyer builds into his limb design.

    Then there was center shot… the amount affected spine tremendously.

    Shooting right around 48-50, I was getting WEAK at my draw and another friend, same draw length, shooting those same test arrows, came up VERY STIFF!!! And…AND (get this) his bow drew 67#!!! So his 67# draw flew STIFF, mine at 48-50 flew Weak! Go figure!

    Turned out my bow and another The same draw length and weight as mine both were 3/16 past center on the riser and the chap with 67# draw at the same length, his bow was IBO legal at 1/8″ SHY of center!

    I guess the goal is to help people come close… but when I learned that many carbons have huge variances in spine in a give production lot of 12 arrows, bought by the dozen, I used the Tuff Head set up starting full length.

    Took a lot of shooting, keeping notes, even marking dots on my arrows to track if it was the shaft or ME… but in the end, I had the best flying EFOC arrows of my life!

    Again, don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade, but with so many variables unaccounted, I just feel like I would be leading someone astray and they’re better served to start out with either a chosen shaft, and use varied weights or start with a chosen weight up front (insert and head) and trim accordingly from full length.

    Ok…”Banished Cane” is ready to go hide now…:oops::cry:

  • James Harvey
    Member
    Post count: 1095

    Bow type and Make: Samick Sage

    Bow Length: 62″

    Bow weight@ 28″: 60#

    Your draw length: 28″

    Arrow type ( material,brand,spine):Carbon, Easton Powerflight .300

    Arrow length (throat of nock to tip of shaft): 29″

    Feathers number and length: 3 x 3″

    Insert weight if applicable: NA

    Adaptor weight if applicable: 100gn

    Point weight: 300gn

    Footing weight if applicable: NA

    Total arrow weight: ~700gn

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included): I don’t remember.. I’ll measure it when I get home and edit this part of the post

    Doc Nock,

    I appreciate the point you’re making but I’ve been interested in what other folks have been coming up with too. Not as a recipe for success but maybe as a broad kind of template or starting point to work off. I hope everyone who’s tried this posts their info 😉

  • Vintage Archer
    Member
    Post count: 275

    Doc Nock Not feeling any rain on my head:D 😀

    Yes experimenting with FOC arrow can be very frustrating because of the many variables involved. You mentioned many one which is the bow. Most bowyers build their bow shelfs the same year after year.So while there are variables between manufactures i.e. bows are center shot,cut to center ,etc There is not as much variation within one company …so it is possible to compare apples with apples. Part of FOC arrow building education is determining the variables and how to compensate for them

    Building FOC arrows in not only frustrating but time consuming and challenging. It can also be expensive like you mention.

    At the end it can be very rewarding .

    When I talk to people about FOC arrows I mention all this up front. I also tell them they should have goals in mind like how much FOC they are striving for which will determine the style of arrow and in some cases the brand of arrows they will have to work with . Once they establish goals that could look at a list like I have suggested and narrow down some variables . They can then purchase a few test arrows and start experimenting bare shafts a 1/4 inch at a time. Most know that the variables ..like bow design release,draw ,length arrow spine, arrow length,weight up front , have to be reckoned with

    The purpose of the list is just to get people started .Give them a potential starting point. Maybe starting will not be so overwhelming. Even better yet maybe they will start.:D

    Now ……did I mention that there are people that visit the TB site that actually like to do this stuff 😀 😀 It takes all kinds.:D

  • sapcut
    Member
    Post count: 159

    Bow type and Make Black Widow recurve

    Bow Length 62″

    Bow weight@ 28″ 62#

    Your draw length 31.25 (71.5#s)

    Arrow type Gold Tip Ultralight Entrada 300

    Arrow length 31.5

    Feathers number and length three 3″, rocket fins

    Insert/adapter combo weight 200 gr.

    Point weight. 300

    Footing weight 50 gr.

    Total arrow weight. 830 gr.

    FOC 32%

  • Bruce Smithhammer
    Member
    Post count: 2515

    It’s funny how experiences differ, but I find tuning high-FOC setups to be quite straightforward, and that all of my bows between #52 and #55, which are all cut either to center, or 1/8″ past center, will shoot a variety of EFOC carbon setups just fine. I can go up or down 50gr. or so, and while I notice a difference in trajectory once the arrow gets out to 30 yds – ish, I don’t find any other tuning fluctuations at all.

    My usual setup:

    Bow type and Make: Big Jim’s ‘Thunderchild,’ Big Jim’s “Buffalo Bow,” Toelke “Whip”

    Bow Length 56″ to 62″

    Bow weight@ 28″: #52 – #55

    Your draw length: 27.5″

    Arrow type: Gold Tip Traditional 5575

    Arrow length: 28.5

    Feathers number and length: 4 x 2-1/4″

    Insert/adapter combo weight 100 gr.

    Point weight: 250 gr.

    Footing weight 5 gr.

    Total arrow weight. 650 gr.

    FOC 28.5%

  • wojo14
    Member
    Post count: 325

    I am building a few arrows now. I will post my results on the chart.

  • smiley1
    Member
    Post count: 89

    Joe,

    Let me start off by saying I am NO EXPERT by any means but I have spent considerable time (and unfortunately money) trying to find that perfect Ashby inspired UEFOC arrow for my hunting applications which mostly include black bear and white tail deer.

    I have tuned 5 different bows with UEFOC arrows and just finished tuning a Dyrad recurve last week. I have made some observations through trial and error but they mainly apply to short draw lengths. Some may agree and some may disagree but this is what I have found to be true for me. First: once you start cutting carbon arrows shorter than 28 inches they become very stiff in spine. The difference between 29″ and 27 1/2″ drastically increases spine. Much more than say 31 1/2″ down to 30″. Second: bows that are cut 3/16″ up to 5/16″ past center do not shoot small diameter (9/32″ and smaller) EFOC & UEFOC shafts very well and the tuning process can be very frustrating. I fix this issue by building out the riser to at least center shot and most of the time 1/8″ to 3/16 of an inch past center. Third: The longer the arrow stays with the string the stiffer an arrow needs to be. An example would be a 30″ draw length as opposed to a 26″ draw length shooting the same poundage at that given draw length. Even if they both shot 31″ arrows I’ve found the person shooting the longer draw length needs a stiffer arrow.

    With that being said here’s my set-up.

    Bow Type and Make: Dyrad Orion Recurve

    Bow Length: 56″

    Bow Weight @ 28″: 54#

    My Draw Length: 50# @ 26″

    Arrow Type: Carbon Easton Bloodline 480 (9/32″) Dia

    Arrow Length: 27 3/8

    Feathers Number and Length: 4 A&A RW Straight Fletch 2 1/2″

    Insert Weight: 75 grains

    Adapter Weight: 100 grains

    Point Weight: 225 grains

    Footing Weight: 30 grains

    Total Arrow Weight: 647 grains

    FOC: 33.1%

    I might also add that I shoot a high performance SBD 10 strand string. I don’t think many people get to experience just how stiff carbon arrows get when cot under 28″ simply because they need a longer arrow for their actual draw length. I have tuned stiffer arrows to my set-ups but always had to leave the arrows 29″ to 30 1/2″. I just don’t like having 3 1/2″ of arrow and 3″ of broadhead hanging off my shelf when I can get away with less spine and a shorter arrow. Hopes this helps.

    Steve

  • James Harvey
    Member
    Post count: 1095

    I just finished fletching up some shafts I tuned to my supermag and here are the details:

    Bow type and Make: Recurve, Bear Super Mag 48

    Bow Length: 48″

    Bow weight@ 28″: 45#

    Your draw length: 28″

    Arrow type ( material,brand,spine): carbon, Easton Powerflight, .500

    Arrow length (throat of nock to tip of shaft): 29.5″

    Feathers number and length: 3 x 4″

    Insert weight if applicable: 15gn

    Adaptor weight if applicable: –

    Point weight: 200gn

    Footing weight if applicable: –

    Total arrow weight: 470gn

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included): 25%

    They’re flying really well, so I may try fletching the last one up with 3 x 3″ and a turbulator and see if it’s still good with broadhead in the wind. I’m shooting tusker aztecs with it so there is a lot of broadhead for the wind to catch 😕

  • Vintage Archer
    Member
    Post count: 275

    Steve and othersYour comments are appreciated. Any insights to tuning are great and may help the next person.

    I added a comment line to the original post….:D

  • tailfeather
    Member
    Post count: 417

    Bow type and Make: Apex Predator

    Bow Length: 66″

    Bow weight@ 28″: 51 @ 28

    Your draw length: 26.5

    Arrow type ( material,brand,spine): carbon, GT 3555

    Arrow length (throat of nock to tip of shaft): 27.75″

    Feathers number and length: 3 x 4″

    Insert weight if applicable: 10gn

    Adaptor weight if applicable: 200 gn

    Point weight: 135 gn, 345 gn total point wght

    Footing weight if applicable: –

    Total arrow weight: 591 gn

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included): 27%

  • David Petersen
    Member
    Post count: 2765

    Doc Noc — Simply put, no matter the bow I’m shooting, I see definite and significant improvements in penetration with heavier arrows and higher FOC. I always put total weight first, minimum 650, before working on FOC. I keep waiting for Dr. Ed to criticize this possible oversimplification???

    Hammer, re your sign-off quote: Methinks old Tom was speaking of the Germans! After all, his piano has been drinking. I’ll take Flaco Jimenez over any mere gentleman any day!

  • tailfeather
    Member
    Post count: 417

    David Petersen wrote:

    Hammer, re your sign-off quote: True, unless it’s Flaco Jemenez!

    Or Garth Hudson

  • Reddwarf
    Member
    Post count: 31

    Here is what is working for me:

    Bow type and Make: CariBow Wolverine

    Bow Length: 58″

    Bow weight@ 28″: 48#

    Your draw length: 26.5″

    Arrow type ( material,brand,spine): carbon, GT 400

    Arrow length (throat of nock to tip of shaft): 28.25″

    Feathers number and length: 4 x 3″ with turbulator

    Insert weight if applicable: 100gn

    Adaptor weight if applicable: 120 gn

    Point weight: 176 gn

    Footing weight if applicable: –

    Total arrow weight: 640 gn

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included): 30%

    This CariBow appears to be quite forgiving with regards to dynamic spine as I can get pretty good flight from a range of set-ups.

  • Bruce Smithhammer
    Member
    Post count: 2515

    David Petersen wrote:

    Hammer, re your sign-off quote: Methinks old Tom was speaking of the Germans!

    I’ve always made an exception for Flaco, and I’m pretty sure Tom would as well! But every rule has a shining exception, or at least it should…

  • Vintage Archer
    Member
    Post count: 275

    [quote=David Petersen]Doc Noc — Simply put, no matter the bow I’m shooting, I see definite and significant improvements in penetration with heavier arrows and higher FOC. I always put total weight first, minimum 650, before working on FOC. I keep waiting for Dr. Ed to criticize this possible oversimplification???

    David P. like you say total weight is probably the goal before FOC it is like the chicken and egg thing which comes first. Actually as you know well they have to be worked in tandem. The total arrow weight should approach or exceed 650 grains to breach bone…. FOC arrows do very little for bone penetration but excel in soft tissue

    I know you have done extensive experimenting with both wood and carbon arrows. Help us out and post your arrow specs.

    I think it is important that we get some wood arrow specs.Not every one wants to shoot carbon or aluminum. Just as not every one want to exceed 650 grain arrows or attain EFOC ..That is ok also We need data on all arrows for comparison.:D

  • David Petersen
    Member
    Post count: 2765

    Joe, will do asap. I’ll have to re-measure and weigh them all, as it’s been a while and after ColMike’s visit the old brain is still awash in Kolsch and gin. Don’t even want to think about the liver. 😯

  • David Petersen
    Member
    Post count: 2765

    Joe, I remain unsure of the usefulness of this exercise, as all it tells us is what others are using … when what really matters to assure we recover every animal we shoot at, is how well an arrow performs on big game, especially with less than perfect shots. And as another contributor has noted, bow weight etc. does play in: the slower and lower weight the bow, the more weight and FOC we need to assure enough momentum to get the job done even with heavy bone hits, which arent’ all that rare. But if you want it, my friend, here it is, for now:

    Bow: Java Man “Elkheart” r/d “long”bow, 54″ length, 52lb @ 28” draw.

    Carbon arrows: Carbon Express Heritage 250s, 29-3/4″ long. 4×3″ feathers, 1/2″ high. Plastic nocks. 787 grains total: 75 grain brass inserts, 50 grain steel broadhead adapters, 300 grain Tuffheads. FOC = 28.5%.

    Notes: These are my well-proven go-to elk arrows, having produced several complete pass-throughs–some with major bone hits and others not–at 20 yards and less, with elk always going down within sight (in heavy woods where sight distance is short). Zero animals unrecovered. I have no particular loyalty to CE shafts, but the work well and are cheap.

    Woodies: Sitka spruce, 29-3/4″ long, same fletching as carbons above. 705 grains total weight with 300 grain glue-on Tuffheads. FOC = 23.5%. I’ve shot only one elk with this setup, a yearling cow about 400lbs. Shaft broke an inch behind the head and fell out, yet head had enough momentum to slice the heart in half and the elk ran only 25 yards before down and dead.

    Notes: This is perhaps the last of a long line of experiments with almost every lighter softwood shaft wood, in an effort to get EFOC with woodies. I tried adding a 2″ aluminum collar behind the head for strength and increased FOC a bit (collar weight about 15 grains), but that only transferred the breakage (testing by shooting at an angle into live pine trees). Until someone proves me wrong with well-documented and repeated test and hunt data, I have given up on EFOC with softwood shafts and heavy heads. Hardwoods are the only woods that are strong enough to not break on angled impact with bone … but invariably too heavy to produce EFOC, esp. for me as I prefer to start with a heavy reliable braodhead and work back down the shaft from there. For me, if you want to shoot woods it means working with weight alone, with little to no help from FoC. I’ve done it and it works, but depending on bow weight and speed and ect. you’re looking at a minimum 800 grains total weight, which works against lighter slower bows. On the flip side, part of the multifold magic of EFOC is that you can get great penetration, even on heavy bone, without super-heavy total weight, though I follow Ashby’s advice for minimum weight of 650. All of life is a trade-off and as much as I prefer to shoot wood and still do when I can, I have become convinced via personal experience that if you really put the animal first, and if “most of the time is works” isn’t good enough, it’s carbon shafts for big tough animals like elk, moose and big bears. Successful exceptions are noted, but exceptions are just that … exceptions, not the rule. Ed Ashby has established the rule and after years of testing it, I haven’t been able to find a single fault.

    In the end I must point out, as always, that all of my archery gear is set up to hunt big elk while allowing for the possibility of bad hits, though I do my best to get good hits, as do all of us who holds our shots to our personal max range (long shooters are creeps and slobs, no matter the weapon). If you’re hunting nothing but whitetails, you don’t need the weight and FOC of my arrows … though, for reasons of conscience and because I was a pre-C Boy Scout (“Be prepared”) and at almost age 70 with life’s usual injuries, can only accurately handle low-50s bows these days, I won’t hunt any big mammal with less than 650 grains and 20% FOC.

  • Toehead
    Member
    Post count: 34

    Some hard rock maples I use for hunting from Forrester Wood shafts.

    This arrow has no cap dip or any other additions.

    Bow type and Make: Longbow, liberty contender Elite

    Bow Length= 64″

    Bow weight@ 28″= 51

    Your draw length+ 28″

    Arrow type: Forrester wood shafts, Hard Rock Maple, 75-80

    Arrow length )=28 1/8″ from nock throat to BOP

    Feathers number and length = 3 right Wing helical 5″ shield

    Insert weight if applicable=n/a

    Adaptor weight if applicable= N/a

    Point weight=225

    Footing weight if applicable=N/a

    Total arrow weight=761 grains

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included)= 15%

  • Toehead
    Member
    Post count: 34

    Some hard rock maples I use for hunting from Forrester Wood shafts.

    This arrow has about an 8″ cap dip, cresting and about 1/4″ of reflective tape on the nock end.

    Bow type and Make: Longbow, liberty contender Elite

    Bow Length= 64″

    Bow weight@ 28″= 51

    Your draw length+ 28″

    Arrow type: Forrester wood shafts, Hard Rock Maple, 75-80

    Arrow length )=29 1/8″ from nock throat to BOP

    Feathers number and length = 3 left Wing helical 5.5″ shield

    Insert weight if applicable=n/a

    Adaptor weight if applicable= N/a

    Point weight=190

    Footing weight if applicable=N/a

    Total arrow weight=747grains

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included)= 11%

  • Vintage Archer
    Member
    Post count: 275

    David Petersen wrote: Joe, I remain unsure of the usefulness of this exercise, as all it tells us is what others are using … when what really matters to assure we recover every animal we shoot at, is how well an arrow performs on big game, especially with less than perfect shots. And as another contributor has noted, bow weight etc. does play in: the slower and lower weight the bow, the more weight and FOC we need to assure enough momentum to get the job done even with heavy bone hits, which arent’ all that rare. But if you want it, my friend, here it is, for now:

    Dave thanks for posting As stated there are a lot of variables in building FOC arrows. If you were starting from scratch and have no experience experimenting with arrow weight or FOC I believe this information can be used as reference or staring point. Agreed bow weight is a big variable . By listing bow weight with the arrow information a beginner can find what others have done and what seems to work for them. By no means is this exercise perfect .

    Because of all the variables that go into shooting more than likely one would not be able to take a 55 lb. long bow and copy my arrow stats and have a perfect flying arrow. They porbably could conclude thet with the same weight bow, draw length and desired FOC that a 350 carbon express arrow might be to stiff in spine to start experimenting with…

    PS> I knew if I prodded you enough I could get you to post :D:D You are a leed voice on this forum. Others will follow.:arrow::arrow: Thanks friend:D

  • Col MikeCol Mike
    Member
    Post count: 902

    Bow–Java man “Elkheart too” r/d” longbow 54″ 52lbs at draw 27″.

    Carbon arrows–trad only 500. 30″ 3×5″shield. 100gr brass insert, 100gr steel adapter 300gr point or tuffhead.

    Total arrow weight- 775gr.

    Efoc-31.67%

    Set this up for elk but will use on whitetail keeping with Doc Ed, and Dave’s comment that there is no such thing as overkill.

    As Joe said -somewhere- that light but strong carbon allows you to hang a lot on the front end.

    Anyway they fly straight and hit where I hold. Could increase foc further with smaller Fletch but why mess with a balanced product–at least for now:)

    Mike

  • tailfeather
    Member
    Post count: 417

    Weighed my arrows on a grain scale today. I was off on my calculations…..they are actually 608 grains, fwiw.

  • Jesse
    Member
    Post count: 1

    As a newbie to carbon arrows and EFOC, I would like to express full support for Joe’s efforts here. I’ve spent the past week reading through all of the discussions in this Friends of FOC forum and taking notes on arrow setups used with similar draw weight bows to mine in order to come up with a best guess starting point for shaft spine. I fully understand that there are a ton of different variables at play and it’s ONLY a best guess but at least it gives me a reasonable starting point.

    The skeptics of this thread reminded me of a quote that I read at an archery shop years ago. I’ll have to butcher it here because I don’t remember most of it but I can still get the point across. It began by describing all of the time and effort you can spend tuning your bow to perfection and ends by saying, “But ultimately it’s the jerk on the string that determines the outcome.” 😆

  • Vintage Archer
    Member
    Post count: 275

    Jesse wrote: As a newbie to carbon arrows and EFOC, I would like to express full support for Joe’s efforts here. I’ve spent the past week reading through all of the discussions in this Friends of FOC forum and taking notes on arrow setups used with similar draw weight bows to mine in order to come up with a best guess starting point for shaft spine. I fully understand that there are a ton of different variables at play and it’s ONLY a best guess but at least it gives me a reasonable starting point.

    The skeptics of this thread reminded me of a quote that I read at an archery shop years ago. I’ll have to butcher it here because I don’t remember most of it but I can still get the point across. It began by describing all of the time and effort you can spend tuning your bow to perfection and ends by saying, “But ultimately it’s the jerk on the string that determines the outcome.” 😆

    JESSE THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT :D….MAYBE BY BRINGING THE POST UP FRONT WE CAN GET MORE TO SIGN ON:D

  • wojo14
    Member
    Post count: 325
  • Troy Breeding
    Member
    Post count: 994

    Bow type and make: One of my own recurves

    Bow length: 62″

    Bow weight: 59#@29″

    Your draw length: 29″

    Arrow type: Victory V-force V-maxx 300 (really 325)

    Arrow length: 29-3/4″

    Feathers number and length: 4ea. 2″ A&E

    Insert/adapter: 100gr brass insert, 125gr steel BH adpt.

    Point weight: 190gr

    Footing weight: 54gr

    Total arrow weight: 700gr

    If I want more total arrow weight I use these:

    Arrow type: Beman Bowhunter 300

    Arrow length: 30.25″

    Feathers number and length: 4ea 2″ A&E

    Insert/adapter: 42gr alum. insert, 125gr steel BH adpt.

    Point weight: 300gr

    Footing weight: 65gr (double footed)

    Total arrow weight: 805gr

    FOC: 31.2%

  • Toehead
    Member
    Post count: 34

    90 degrees today and Angella killed her deer last night ( single bevel grizzly 120 grains put quite the S cut in the heart but I digress) I had plenty of time today to get around to making up some arrows for this bow. Built these around the broadhead. Turned out pretty good.

    Bow type and Make: Big Jim Thunderchild

    Bow Length: 54″

    Bow weight@ 28″: 54lbs

    Your draw length: 29″ ( I use a clicker)

    Arrow type: Gold Tip ultra light Entrada 400

    Arrow length: 32.625

    Feathers number and length: 3/5″

    Insert weight: 100gr

    Adaptor weigh: 125 gr

    Point weight: 225 gr

    Footing weight if applicable: n/a

    Total arrow weight: 735 gr

    FOC: 29.3%

    NOTE: also using 6″ arrow wraps

  • kingwouldbe
    Member
    Post count: 245

    Hi Joe, I change arrows about as often as I change my drawers….lol

    I will share what I do and how I work up an arrow, but I will have to go and get all of the data for ya.

    Like Peterson, I like to start with my head weight, and build from there ( experience has taught me this is the easiest way ) I start with a full length shaft, shoot at short yardage like 7-10 yds, depending on how crazy the shaft flew depends on what I do next. working from the back, I cut until they fly straight as an arrow…..

    All of my risers are from center shot, OUT – about 1/8 – 3/8 this is most important when working on a high EFOC arrow, if your shelf is to close to center shot you will get a tone of FALSE reads that the spine is week, you really want your riser to be more selfbow’esk, shooting AROUND the riser.

    With carbon arrows they are very forgiving with weight changes, even up to a 100 grains, however very sensitive to cutting.

    My EFOC arrow are twice as forgiving as regular arrows, and seem to carry there trajectory down range better, so there is now down side.

    I like to stick around the 600-800 grain arrows and EFOC 28% and up.

    Thanks for putting this together for those wanting to work up a UEFOC arrow, as you already know my friend it’s a better mouse trap.

    attached file
  • lbman77
    Member
    Post count: 31

    Well, I’ll throw my hat in the ring.

    Bow: re-worked Martin something-or-other longbow, 66″ knock-to-knock,

    Draw weight: 63# @ 28″.

    My draw: 28 1/2″, so actual draw weight is about 65#.

    Arrow shaft: Carbon Express Pass Thru Extreme Small Diameter.

    Arrow length: 29 3/8″.

    Spine: 350 (60-75#).

    Insert: 40 gr. steel, factory half-in, half-out.

    Insert weights: 20 gr. (2 10 gr. weights)

    Current b/h: Zwickey Eskimo 125 gr. Waiting on some Kodiaks in 235 gr. and 75 gr. adapters.

    Adapters: 125 gr. steel.

    Fletching: TruFlight 4″ shield cut x3.

    Total arrow weight: 660 gr.

    FOC: about 29%.

    Now that I have a different style of broad head on the way, I’m still working up the arrows, but I am keeping the new setup as close to the the weight of my current one for the sake of consistency. I will, however, also try the Kodiaks on the 125 gr. adapters to see what happens. I’ve noticed that the extra weight up front keeps the arrow on track pretty well, even with a sloppy release, change in brace height, or if the tie-on knocking point slips down a bit.

  • David CoulterDavid Coulter
    Member
    Post count: 1979

    Hi Folks,

    It took me a few days to double check my notes, but here’s my stats.

    Leon Stewart, LS Slammer Special R/D longbow

    62″, 46# @ 28

    Don’t know my draw length.

    Beman Bowhunter 400 shafts

    30′ long

    50 gr. brass insert

    75 gr steel adapter

    225 gr Tuffhead

    4 x 3 parabolic or AA style cut

    Total weight 635 gr.

    FOC is 27.9 according to Joe’s (and Alaskabowhunting.com ) calculator

    I set up my field points and judo stumpers to match this set-up.

    With the help of Troy Breeding, I bare shaft tuned a couple years ago and this fall I shot through paper to check and they were nice round little holes in the paper.

    Only one small doe so far with this set-up. A shot through the heart at about 12-13 yards. She continued to walk about 25 or 30 yards and fell over. The arrow was buried 5″ into the stoney, dirt hillside beyond the deer.

    I’ll stick with this set-up. The shafts are among the cheapest out there and they fly nice and seem to hold up quite well. I break a shaft or two a year stumping and I shoot almost every day. I do bend a judo head now and then and occasionally bend a steel insert. The shafts only seem to break after a dramatic side-swipe after bouncing off the side of a sapling sideways into another tree. I guess I need to shoot straighter.

    I hand sharpen my heads for now, but am able to get them shaving sharp. Maybe a KME in the future, but a flat stone and leather works for now.

    Thanks for this thread, Joe!

    All the best, dwc

  • Abel
    Member
    Post count: 29

    Samich Sage 55lb Recurve

    55lbs @ 28″, draw 28″ s well

    Grizzly Sitck Alaskan

    29″

    78grn brass inserts

    225gr Tuffheads with 75grn adapter=300grn points

    760gr overall

    FOC=25.8%

    Tapered 70-75 Cedar shafts

    30.25″

    225 tuffhead

    Don’t know total grns

    FOC=20.7%

    Straight Cedar 75-80 spine

    29.5″

    430grns

    300gr tuffhead

    730grs overall

    FOC= 22%

    All arrows fletched with 5 1/5″ shields.

    Going to build a set of Tapered ASH with the 300’s here after Goat season is over. Any ideas on shaft spine for that setup? Thinking of staying with the 70-75’s, maybe adjust the shelf out some to be able to shoot the softer spine. Going to play with some tapered 70-75 cedar shafts here during Christmas break.

  • Michael Davenport
    Member
    Post count: 4

    Bow type and make: Talltines Dshaped longbow

    Bow length: 64″

    Bow weight: 57#@29.5″

    Your draw length: 29.5″

    Arrow type: Trad Only 300

    Arrow length: 30.5″

    Feathers number and length: 3, 4″ para

    Insert/adapter: 50gr brass insert, 100 grsteel BH adpt.

    Point weight: 190gr TUFFHEAD

    Total arrow weight: 680gr

    FOC: 27%

    I got a new bow coming…kinda geeked about building a new arrow. Got 2 shots at whitetails this fall. Passthrougs with massive blood trails on both.

  • burgess
    Member
    Post count: 24

    Bow type and Make ….chastain wapiti….recurve phenolic riser

    Bow Length…58

    Bow weight@ 45 # at 26

    Your draw length….26

    Arrow type…… mfx bemans 500’s

    Arrow length …..27 1/2

    Feathers ….. 4 @ 60/120…..3 inch

    Insert weight …..brass insert adaptor as one 100 grn

    Point weight…vpa 250 grn

    Total arrow weight……630

    FOC …..29 %

    in one side…….and out the other……most awesome arrow i have ever shot and i’ve been at this a long long time………………

  • Forresterwoods
    Member
    Post count: 104

    Joe if you need some wood arrow tests, I would be happy to send results of different wood shafts I make. (I believe a test shooter for Dr. Ashby is currently testing some). I personally elk hunt with hardwood arrows in 9/32 spined 48# from my 58# longbow and these shoot like darts. The built-in footings allow me to hook up large heavy broadheads for better FOC and more importantly…better PENITRATION due to the larger wound than the shaft diameter. I have several woods available to test such as red balau, hard rock maple, mahogany, Spanish cedar, and leopardwood. 😀

  • StixStix
    Member
    Post count: 153

    I’ll throw in my info, even though many of you consider my arrow set up to be light.

    Bow type and Make: Longbow, Maddog Prairie Predator / Recurve Samick Stingray

    Bow Length= 60″/58″

    Bow weight@ 28″= 55#/55#

    Your draw length+ 28″/28″

    Arrow type: GT Xpedition Hunter(Black) 35/55

    Arrow length: 30.5″ from nock throat to BOP

    Feathers number and length : 3 Left Wing helical 5″ shield

    Insert weight if applicable: 12 grains (I think) Standart GT adapters)

    Adaptor weight if applicable: N/a

    Point weight: 145

    Footing weight if applicable=N/a

    Total arrow weight: 400 grains

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included): 17.1%

    I am fortunate to get great flight from same arrows for both bows. I would appreciate any expert reviews of my setup. I know arrow is light (400 grains), but I know the elk I have been blessed to take with complete pass thru’s were very concerned about it.

  • Forresterwoods
    Member
    Post count: 104

    That’s fine as long as you don’t hit bone. Some native American Indians rounded off their points so if they hit a rib the arrow would glance off and Continue through the animal rather than sticking in the bone. Good collection of information though.8)

  • wojo14
    Member
    Post count: 325

    Bow type and make- Javaman Elkheart

    Bow Length- 54″

    Bow weight@ 27″- 53#

    Your draw length- 27″

    Arrow type- Easton a/c/c 440

    Arrow length- 28.75″

    Feathers number and length- 3-4.5″

    Insert weight- 20

    Point weight- 300g

    Total arrow weight- 605g

    FOC- 27%

  • Vintage Archer
    Member
    Post count: 275

    Forresterwoods wrote: Joe if you need some wood arrow tests, I would be happy to send results of different wood shafts I make. (I believe a test shooter for Dr. Ashby is currently testing some). I personally elk hunt with hardwood arrows in 9/32 spined 48# from my 58# longbow and these shoot like darts. The built-in footings allow me to hook up large heavy broadheads for better FOC and more importantly…better PENITRATION due to the larger wound than the shaft diameter. I have several woods available to test such as red balau, hard rock maple, mahogany, Spanish cedar, and leopardwood. 😀

    FORREST WOODS I think it would be interesting to see the test results posted on a new thread on this web site. it certainly would be beneficial to others to see those results.This is information that we need to know when choosing wood arrows.I think that is something that needs to be considered by the web mother I don’t know if that would be considered as advertising . May be she will read this and give an answer.

    At any rate send it to me and I will try to get my web guy to post on my web site under the education category.

  • Robin ConradsRobin Conrads
    Admin
    Post count: 796

    I’m okay with Forresterwoods posting about infomational/educational stuff on heavy wood arrows as long as it’s not an informercial. 😉

  • mfc
    Member
    Post count: 14

    Here’s my attempt ..

    Bow ..Morrison 15 inch alloy riser with short 50# TT extreme carbon limbs, 56 inch bow , 52# at 26 inch draw

    Shafts…. Widdowmaker smash 350 cut at 27 inch ,27.75 inch nock grove to end

    50g widdowmaker alloy outsert

    200g stainless insert with 190g tusker Concorde broadheads

    5 inch r helical fletch x 3 ( haven’t started shortening them yet)

    30%foc as per tuffhead site calculator

    730 g total

    These stats will likely change as my shooting improves.

    The shafts are designed by mick at trophybowhunts.com.au

    And are quite thin yet very robust( around 5.3 mm OD with a thick wall) there 10.3 gpi , he also makes some very strong broadheads …

    Cheers mark

  • David Becker
    Member
    Post count: 110

    Bow type and Make ( example long bow, black widow) Samik Journey Take down recurve

    Bow Length 64″

    Bow weight@ 28″ 45#

    Your draw length 30.5″

    Arrow type : 5575 Gold Tip Traditional

    Arrow length (throat of nock to tip of shaft) 31″

    Feathers number and length 5″ shield x3

    Insert weight if applicable 11.4

    Adaptor weight if applicable

    Point weight 175 Grain Grizzly screw in broad head

    Footing weight if applicable

    Total arrow weight 505

    FOC 16.5%

    I also used those little carbon collars that 3rivers sells on the nock and insert end of the arrow. They weigh about 5 grains each.

    Those aren’t terribly impressive numbers, but I didn’t have the time to mess around with arrows much AND learn to shoot this year. So I went with something that Stu Miller’s Dynamic Spine Calculator said would work well. Arrow flight was excellent.

    Performance on my doe was great. I had a quartering away hit, diagonally through the chest, exiting through the left leg, which was broken by the arrow. She laid down 20 yards from the base of my stand.

    The value that I’m getting from this thread is that it appears you can hang WAY more weight on the end of a carbon arrow than the spine calculator or spine charts would suggest, and still get good arrow flight.

    That’s valuable for me, as I’m going for Elk next year, and I’ll need a heavier arrow. I had intended to buy some stiffer shafts and start experimenting, but I might just buy some brass inserts and heavy points and see what I can make happen from there.

  • David CoulterDavid Coulter
    Member
    Post count: 1979

    Hey Wose, congratulations on a great shot on that doe. It worked well for you to say the least. I went heavy and high foc due to the fact that I’m still quite new to this and wanted to have as much advantage as possible. Good luck on building you arrow for elk. Keep us posted. Best, dwc

  • longbow_hunter
    Member
    Post count: 10

    Bow type and Make- Martin Savannah Stealth

    Bow Length- 62″

    Bow weight@ 28″- 45 lbs

    Your draw length- 28″

    Arrow type- Easton 2216 Aluminums(.376 spine)

    Arrow length- 30″

    Feathers number and length- 3 5″ Shield cut RW

    Insert weight- 25

    Point weight- 250 grains

    Total arrow weight- 650 grains

    FOC- 20.2%

  • Jennifer Robinson
    Member
    Post count: 1

    Hi y’all. New here. My setup is a work in progress, but so far:

    Bow: Bear 48 Super Magnum

    Bow length: 48″

    Bow weight at 28″: 55

    My draw length: 24″

    Arrow: Carbon Express Heritage 90’s

    Arrow length: 25.5″

    Feathers: 4×4″

    Insert weight: 15

    Point weight 300

    Total arrow weight:590

    FOC:24.5%

  • Longtrad
    Member
    Post count: 8

    Bow type and Make: Maddog prairie predator

    Bow Length: 60″

    Bow weight@ 28″: 50 @ 28 (46@26)

    Your draw length: 26.5

    Arrow type ( material,brand,spine): carbon, Victory vforce 500

    Arrow length (throat of nock to tip of shaft): 27.5″

    Feathers number and length: 3 x 4″

    Insert weight if applicable: 22gn

    Adaptor weight if applicable: 125g

    Point weight: 235gn 303gn with adaptor

    Footing weight if applicable: –

    Total arrow weight: 520gn

    FOC (as measured by AMO standard..measured throat of knock to end of shaft……tip not included): 30%

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